FWD cars?

[Eurasianman]

I have a 2010 Cobalt SS turbocharged. I was an idiot and didn't get one with LSD. I have GM Stage 1 turbo upgrade that boosts the engine power from 260HP/260TQ to 280HP/320TQ at the crank.

So, what's not to like? Torque steer. That is all. At stock, without the GM Stage 1 turbo upgrade, the torque steer wasn't that bad. But now that I have it installed, torque steer is ridiculous. Even when I'm in 3rd and I floor it to get around someone, I can feel the torque steer kicking in. Don't get me wrong. The car is fun to drive, but torque steer is probably one of the main reasons why people don't like FWD vehicles... at least when it has that kind of power.

[Draco-REX]

*shrug* I've driven FWD and I don't like it, or the compromises it makes and requires.

[Dave-ROR]

FWD is the worst, like evar! I would never own a FWD car!

Seriously though, my preference is RWD, then FWD, and then if there were no other cars left in the entire world, AWD.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

*shrug* I've driven FWD and I don't like it, or the compromises it makes and requires.

My FWD cars drive fine. The only thing they won't do is throttle oversteer. They four wheel drift all the time (setup and my driving style) and oversteer more than most novice drivers could handle. :shrug:

[mines13]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

My FWD cars drive fine. The only thing they won't do is throttle oversteer. They four wheel drift all the time (setup and my driving style) and oversteer more than most novice drivers could handle. :shrug:

Fact. My DA with zero rear toe, 1/8" total tow out front, 5.5 degrees caster, 380lb rear springs, 440lb front springs, 2.5 degrees negative camber front, 2 degrees negative camber rear, and 27mm rear anti roll bar; is extremely neutral and does indeed over-steer/drift if driver induced to do so at the track. (not all that difficult to accomplish I might add) Dave hit it right on the head. The same laws of physics apply to ANY vehicle. The drive wheels alone do not solely determine a vehicles driving dynamics. That said, I also would say my personal preference is also RWD>FWD>AWD.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by koyv90

Why so much hate on FWD Cars?

No hate here. I tracked my MINI's for many years with great pleasure. Properly tuned and setup FWD cars have fantastic and benign characteristics that are perfect for improving driving lines and fundamental driving skills.

There are a bunch of FWD cars out there that handle fantastic and are tons of fun to drive. They do require different skills to "dance" with than RWD or AWD, but are nonetheless still effective.

[SVTSHC]

Frankly, I loved my SVT for a solid 3 years until I started getting bored of it. About the only gripe I ever had with it was torque steer after I started boosting.

As far as handling characteristics the car was incredible, predictable and a LOT of fun. Hell, with all my mods stripped off (except my urathane bushings) the car will still out-handle the vast majority of RWD & AWD cars I've driven.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Veloist

So just because I've never understeered, it follows that I've never pushed the car(s) to its limits?

yes, because understeer is when the front tires start to lose traction before the rear tires

and oversteer is when the rear tires start to lose traction before the front tires

if you have never experienced understeer, that means you have never driven to the point where your tires begin to lose grip

also i'd assume then that you have never driven in the snow... or even rain for that matter.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Dark

Oversteering is fun.

Anyway, move to off topic.

So much torque!

Lol

Especially when busting U-turns.

[RaceR]

1. place: RWD without a doubt
2. place: FF/AWD split, depending on conditions and car

On daily basis I drive my cars on the limit and above. If it is a sharp corner or a roundabout I will always go fast out of it. Usually playing and balancing the car on its limit. Often sideways, intentionally of course.
Most of my cars have been RWD.

In the 10-15 min drive I have to the local supermarked. Or driving another 10 min another way so that I can walk up on the mountain. I often go sideways 1-4 times in a RWD car like my MR2. Especially if it is wet (wich it often is). The other day I was much sideways several times in the dry, and my MR2 only have 140hp on 215 tires. Says some about my driving style.. You do not even have to go sideways, only feel the car on its limits in a RWD car will give great driving pleasure!
Due to my driving, drivetrain is important. Understeer is just not fun, and with a FWD car you will mostly have that. And you will always understeer while powering out of corners after entering the corner like you would on trafficked road.
________________

I used to have a 2010 Golf bluemotion as a company car. Yawn.. Very depressing wintercar. Understeer all over the place. Very boring overall.

When that is said. I just bought a slightly used Cooper S over a BMW 1-series for my new private/company car. (My older MR2 is too small for work use, and GT86 is not on sale within the first months. I also wish to save up for it since it is really expensive here!)
The 1-series was a bit heavy and not that engaging as I would have hoped. It would have to have less power compared to the Cooper S. And I would always end up with wheelspin on the inner tire when driving it hard. Id rather have a fun fwd over a rwd 1-wheel drive none drifting BMW that I would not feel fully content with. (I love BMWs tough)
Fitting a Quaife LSD on the bimmer would be out of the question with the "short-term" ownership I am planning.

The charm of the Cooper, the power, the turbo and torque, the handling, its lightness, its "goofyness", the special cookpit. Its premium feel. The car makes me smile even tough it is FWD. It is fun to drive and, and its a car I have to take that extra look at when walking away from it. It is a passionate car for me. Kids and everyone loves it too. (Picture below does not really do it justice)
Could I live with it in the very long run? Probably not. The need for RWD is too big. But it will be my main car until i buy the GT86/BRZ, and I will enjoy it even tough I am a RWD nutthead! (it helps to know my next car will be rwd)
I look forward for some autocross driving next month with my Mini and driving it on the Nordschleife in the future, even tough it is FWD.
My MR2 will be sold since I am saving up for the GT86.

I would never have guessed I would pick a FWD over a RWD, but for me the Mini was the exception. It was one of the cars I just had to own.
________________

My Conclusion and car philosophy: Handling and driving feel is the most important stuff! Most FWD cars sucks! Most AWD cars sucks!
Most RWD sports car are awesome, and RWD in general is more fun!
There is always some exceptions to the "rules" above.
Heavy cars are less fun since they feel more like a ship compared to a go-kart.
Throttle response is more important when driving on the edge and going sideways. NA is preferred in RWD. In FWD/AWD it is not that important unless you have a superlightweight and powerful track car.
The most fun cars to drive are those who are light, have RWD combined with LSD and NA engine with reasonable amount of power. If it is a little practical on top of that. Then you have a winner... Sounds like a GT86/BRZ!

Picture from this afternoon.


All this writing makes me want to drive, just for the fun of it. It is moist outside now.. And I have some more spare time.. RWD sounds fun, but I drove the MR2 last time..hmm...

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

*shrug* I've driven FWD and I don't like it, or the compromises it makes and requires.

So you prefer the compromises that AWD platforms make and require?

A well set-up FWD sporty car can make AWD redundant.

[MRZ415]

I drove 4wd the rwd then fwd...
4wd feels best... rwd i can feel like
Iam being pushed from behind...
and fwd. I can feel the pull from the front.

I felt safe with 4wd
i felt intrigued by rwd
And i feel kinda laid back in fwd.

[Lonewolf]

In general, FWD tends to be a little less fluid and engaging.

But a FWD car like my neighbor's FWD Integra Type R is a blast to drive around, unlike my cousin's bug-eye WRX (AWD) which I do not enjoy much at all.

Weight, transmission, suspension set-up, and power levels can make FWD pretty fun, but they are few good FWD cars (Cooper S, Integra Type R, Cobalt SS).

With all that said, there are a ton of RWD cars I enjoy driving.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

So you prefer the compromises that AWD platforms make and require?

A well set-up FWD sporty car can make AWD redundant.

No FWD car, no matter how well set up, will be able to put as much power to the pavement as an AWD car. In the act of accelerating, weight is transferred from the front wheels to the rear. In a RWD or AWD car, this is fine because the wheels in the back are driven. With FWD, you are reducing available grip when you accelerate.

And this is ignoring the simple fact that an AWD car has twice driven contact patch.

Now while there are situations I'd rather have RWD over AWD, and FWD over RWD, there are none where I would rather have FWD over both RWD and AWD.