BRZ as daily driver?

[Kunzite]

Understeer and oversteer explained:
[u2b]zoICf55jED8[/u2b]

[Dark]

^^ awesome explanation. hahaha

Originally Posted by ashtray

That was a simple explanation. There's cases where a fwd car car oversteer, and a RWD can understeer. Know how the car is behaving while turning and losing traction and which wheels are being driven will help you react to maintain control. But in pretty much all cases, you point the wheels in the direction you want the car to go.

The BRZ might understeer a bit in dry conditions under hard cornering. depends on the suspension setup.

I think some reviews said BRZ is not tail happy as FR-S, but it still oversteers. I don't think a bit tweak on damper and spring rates for stability in BRZ will make it go understeer like FWD cars. It maybe just more grippy less tail happy at the corner.

[Lighting Red]

I think that it is both a little sad, yet overall funny that for many folks (myself included, I am 31 BTW) the BRZ/FR-S will be their first RWD car. Not including my motorcycles, I have grown up on a diet of FWD and AWD cars, and I suspect that several people here are in the same boat.

To the OP, while I am a NoVA resident as well, the bad weather does not concern me. Remember the two cardinal rules of operating... Well just about any vehicle... 1) The vehicles go where your eyes go. 2) This build off rule one: do not target fixate. If you go off your intended course, rip your eyes away from what you may hit, and direct them where you want to go. Your body will do what it takes to feed inputs into the vehicle in order for the entire system (you+vehicle) to go where you want.

Of course, practice can't hurt. I recommend going to an empty parking lot - bonus points if it's a rainy day - and progressively (read: safely) search for the limit of what the car can do. It is also a great way to find out you are comfortable with, which is highly important! I do that with all my new car/motorcycles purchases, and I think it is important to know how my vehicle acts in such a situation. Bear in mind that is not the way to be normally driving - like that needs to be said.

I am personally looking forward to straightening the car out with the throttle on corner exit every once in a while

[Brett]

Originally Posted by ashtray

get a second set of rims with snow tires and you'll be fine.

Ditto. Blizzaks or similar, and it'll drive like a tank.

[Pakjk89]

Originally Posted by Lighting Red

I think that it is both a little sad, yet overall funny that for many folks (myself included, I am 31 BTW) the BRZ/FR-S will be their first RWD car. Not including my motorcycles, I have grown up on a diet of FWD and AWD cars, and I suspect that several people here are in the same boat.

To the OP, while I am a NoVA resident as well, the bad weather does not concern me. Remember the two cardinal rules of operating... Well just about any vehicle... 1) The vehicles go where your eyes go. 2) This build off rule one: do not target fixate. If you go off your intended course, rip your eyes away from what you may hit, and direct them where you want to go. Your body will do what it takes to feed inputs into the vehicle in order for the entire system (you+vehicle) to go where you want.

Of course, practice can't hurt. I recommend going to an empty parking lot - bonus points if it's a rainy day - and progressively (read: safely) search for the limit of what the car can do. It is also a great way to find out you are comfortable with, which is highly important! I do that with all my new car/motorcycles purchases, and I think it is important to know how my vehicle acts in such a situation. Bear in mind that is not the way to be normally driving - like that needs to be said.

I am personally looking forward to straightening the car out with the throttle on corner exit every once in a while

Yeah, I hear you. I have been scratching and clawing to get a rwd car, let alone a manual one. I sadly have a GTI and (regretfully) got an automatic. I guess it was because I never learned how to drive a manual (please don't roast me guys). This will hopefully be my first rwd and manual car that teaches me the true meaning of proper driving.

[Hanzo]

RWD is fine in the snow, if it's not then there won't be many BMWs left on the road.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Pakjk89

Excuse me for being a complete car noob but I have always wondered what understeer and oversteer meant and this is exactly the best explanation ever. I read that the BRZ tends to understeer though. What does that mean relative to bad weather/slippery conditions?

Here's a great quote (I can't find the origin though):

With understeer you hit the wall with the front of the car. With oversteer you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you'll hit the wall, and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

In the real world, even RWD cars will understeer if you go too fast into a corner. At that point it's more about the front tire's grip and braking. But where the difference occurs is when you step on the gas. A FWD car will lose traction in the front so more understeer. A RWD car will lose traction in the rear so the understeer will turn into oversteer. It's this switch from under- to oversteer that freaks people out and makes them think RWD cars are unpredictable and dangerous.

In fact, RWD cars are MORE controllable than FWD cars. But they take some skill to do that, and driving skill is an oxymoron for the majority of US drivers.

Rule #1 of circuit racing works well in the real world too. Especially when conditions get bad.

"Always do ONE thing at a time." You can Turn, Brake, or Accelerate. But only do one at a time. Your tires only have so much grip, and you have to spend it like money to buy what you want to do. If you try to do two things (turning while accelerating) you'll have to spread your money out and have less for either.

So if conditions are bad, brake for a turn before you get to it, then get off the brake and start to turn the wheel as you enter the turn. Then when you unwind the wheel straight at the exit of the turn, you can step on the gas to accelerate again. Brake, THEN turn, THEN accelerate.

The BEST thing you can do to learn your car is find an *empty* parking lot covered in snow and go do donuts and drifts. When you become familiar with how the car will move when it breaks traction, you'll be less likely to panic if it happens unexpectedly. And if you're holding and switching up drifts, you'll become familiar with how to get out of and control slides.

Enjoy your RWD daily driver.

[GMU-BRZ]

FWIW, I’m in basically the same situation as you. Planning on getting this car as my daily driver, and I doubt I ever take it to the track.

[Jayde]

I'm also planning on using this car as a daily driver too, unless I can find somewhere to store my Integra for a winter car.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Corey

If you drive like a normal person you will most likely never even notice the difference between FWD and RWD. People like to exagerate the dangers a lot but realistically most people who crash, especially in poor weather, would have crashed regardless of the drivetrain. It will be a fine daily driver.

Well put! Driving skills + winter tires = wintertime competence, regardless of drivetrain.

I'm planning on DD'ing the BRZ. I'm planning on putting winter tires on the stock wheels, and then getting another set of rolling stock for summer. This won't be my first rear-drive car; I've had rear-drive DD's sporadically for most of my driving career.

For those that this will be their 1st rear-drive car, I suggest some HPDE's, auto-x, or lonely parking-lot time to acclimate to the new driving style and learn the car near, at, and beyond the limits of adhesion. Practice makes perfect.

[stateless]

If you are interested in understanding the dynamics and proper driving techniques better, this is a decent site: http://www.drivingfast.net/

[maxeveland]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

Understeer and oversteer explained:
[u2b]zoICf55jED8[/u2b]

lol that is a hilarious explanation

[Dave-ROR]

I'll DD mine. No snow concerns though since I live in hell. :P

[BillY2KFRC]

Yup, daily driver here in CT for me, I love RWD in the snow. Think it'll be awesome with the great F/R weight distribution and some proper snow tires. Don't let people get you all worked up over the RWD thing, those are the same people that drive their SUVs into a ditch when it snows.