Vorschlag/AST/Moton Hands On BRZ

[MannyO]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

Hmm, did you per chance mean to say donut? This doesn't look like a full size spare.

It's full size as far as height goes, just a lot skinnier than the others on the car.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Xlr8

I think from the way their article was written that they are thinking about autocross only. Someone worried about pulling the spare out, changing to a lighter battery and changing exhaust from the headers back is not thinking about this car as a daily driver. This car with a weight drop like they are suggesting, with track set up suspension and wide sticky tires will be sweet. Autocrossers are not interested in drifting the tail out all the time.
Just my observation.

No, these guys are talking to a small subset of autocrossers - those who delude themselves about becoming 'nationally competitive'. Disproportionate share of autox-ers show up to have fun in their car.

Plenty of rx8 owners spent crapload on 'stx' mods only to make their cars slower, lol.

And notice that they are not talking about stock class either, cause those guys won't buy much from them, hence little sense to start priming them early.

[ZetaVI]

Awesome that you guys were able to measure everything.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

No, these guys are talking to a small subset of autocrossers - those who delude themselves about becoming 'nationally competitive'. Disproportionate share of autox-ers show up to have fun in their car.

Plenty of rx8 owners spent crapload on 'stx' mods only to make their cars slower, lol.

And notice that they are not talking about stock class either, cause those guys won't buy much from them, hence little sense to start priming them early.

Huh??!? Stock class is allowed to change their shocks (not springs). So Moton's target demo include stock class as well. And the shocks is the most expensive part of the suspension. STX is slower than what? Slower than their respective stock class (RX8 - CStock). I really would hope that a CStock running Hoosiers would be faster than a STX car running Hankooks.

On another note, I'm really glad Moton or AST (same company now) are developing options for the FR-S/BRZ. I really hope the FR-S/BRZ will be classed in STX.

[dsgerbc]

^Slower on PAX. Some are also slower on street tires, after switching from a local street-tire stock class to STX. Stock class guys will spend a fraction of what those prepping for STX will spend.

Anyway, comments by people who only have random set of rules for some competition in mind should be disregarded by 99% of potential buyers of this car.

[Dark]

The stock tire is summer tire. It performs really good, and the only down side is, it costs almost the same as much stickier tires.

[Silverpike]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

No, these guys are talking to a small subset of autocrossers - those who delude themselves about becoming 'nationally competitive'. Disproportionate share of autox-ers show up to have fun in their car.

Plenty of rx8 owners spent crapload on 'stx' mods only to make their cars slower, lol.

And notice that they are not talking about stock class either, cause those guys won't buy much from them, hence little sense to start priming them early.

Delude themselves huh? Do you know who Vorschlag is? Probably not.

They have provided very valuable insight by measuring this car. All their praise and criticisms are dead on, and are highly relevant to both auto-x people and track people. Estimating removable weight strategies is useful, and the observations about suspension geometry is also very relevant for mild suspension mods. I just wish they would have told us which Subaru model shares the front struts.

What pisses me off about this forum is the number of "drifting is rad yo!" people here. Anyone who thinks keeping Prius tires on the car is a good idea is straight up retarded. I am astounded that Subaru is pulling this "pseudo luxury" attitude and putting such crappy tires on the car. I suppose it's not much different from when the original WRX came with RE-92s (sigh), but Prius tires are insulting. Anyone who knows anything about cars should know that tires are the single most important part on the car which improves car performance. Braking, acceleration, and cornering all depend on high quality tires. The first thing I'm going to do is pull these absurd piles of crap and put some high quality street tires on.

[oneday]

Fyi, I did not write those posts nor do I have any affiliation with Vorschlag, AST, or Moton.

And even though Vorshlag's target customer will be autocrossers and trackday enthusiasts there will be plenty of regular folks that will buy parts built by these manufacturers. I know I am excited to see what they come up with.

[oneday]

Silverpike, the tire choice is supposed to allow drivers to reach the chassis limits at slower speeds while still being controllable.That said Continental DW or Hankook RS3 will be the first mods I get mor my FRS.

[LeftFootBrake]

Part of the design work that went into this car is enabling it to adapt to the demands of different demographics. Tetsuya Tada has made it clear that in stock form the goal is not to be fastest around a track. Fortunately, he's also designed a car with an expectation that it will be modified for different outcomes, including lap times. If you haven't had a chance already, I highly recommend the following article to understand the philosophy better: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...hief-engineer/
I, for one, am looking forward to both the stock experience and the opportunities of modification in the fullness of time.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Silverpike

Delude themselves huh?

Yeap. Been there, went to nationals, thankfully only once. And his impressions are useless to me now, other than helmet clearance. I am still gonna take the car to autox (probably test-n-tune events only though) and track. But I'm not gonna burn money buying tires/shocks/whatever to gain X mph in a corner.

Like I said, even on a Jetta this tire did .80g. Given that a lowered/stiffened WRX on RE92 could better its skippad by .05, I reasonably expect the BRZ to be capable of .90g on the skidpad with these tires, which would be adequate for most people. I wouldn't be surprised it could do more, given that the objective was 1.0g.

And honestly, anyone who brings up 'Prius' tires is probably trolling.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Silverpike

What pisses me off about this forum is the number of "drifting is rad yo!" people here. Anyone who thinks keeping Prius tires on the car is a good idea is straight up retarded.

Funniest thing I've read here.

[86design]

nice good post.....I love when people take measurements

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Like I said, even on a Jetta this tire did .80g. Given that a lowered/stiffened WRX on RE92 could better its skippad by .05, I reasonably expect the BRZ to be capable of .90g on the skidpad with these tires, which would be adequate for most people. I wouldn't be surprised it could do more, given that the objective was 1.0g.

And honestly, anyone who brings up 'Prius' tires is probably trolling.

Yea!
And honestly, considering that most cars come with all-seasons, it's pretty nice that these have summer tires at least, even if they're touring rather than performance. Slightly crappier grip for a quiet and comfortable ride on the road might not be such a bad thing.