BRZ vs BRZ STi

[Hanzo]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Instead of saying "bigger" brakes a better word I should have said is "better" brakes. Better brakes w/ ABS is still better. The '03-'04 G35 sport package Brembo brakes were smaller than the non-branded G35 brakes that replaced them for '05-'07 but better because their pistons chomped down harder (a reason why '03-'04 are sought after by G35 shoppers which they nicknamed the "Brembo editions").

But surprisingly the none-Brembo later models have better stopping distance than the old Brembos. I'm sure repeated hard braking on the track will favor the Brembos but that's not my point. If brakes are powerful enough to stop the car well repeatedly why complicate things by adding more pistons and weight? Remember the NSX? It only had twin piston calipers but was enough for a stock NSX power and weight. The right tuning is better than over tuning.

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^Yeah def. want bigger brakes. Makes a huge difference even for everyday safety.

This is one of the most absurd posts I've ever seen.

[switchlanez]

^Rather than trolling why don't you say something intelligible and edumacate me. I've never done extensive research nor bought aftermarket brakes before. My only experience is that the G35 was the heaviest car I ever owned but had the best consistent stopping power I ever felt. So flame my enthusiasm.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Hanzo

But surprisingly the none-Brembo later models have better stopping distance than the old Brembos. I'm sure repeated hard braking on the track will favor the Brembos but that's not my point. If brakes are powerful enough to stop the car well repeatedly why complicate things by adding more pistons and weight? Remember the NSX? It only had twin piston calipers but was enough for a stock NSX power and weight. The right tuning is better than over tuning.

I don't want just any big brakes... but brakes tuned and selected for the STI moniker.

[86'd]

Irrational or not, I think the car would have to have something closer to 300hp (250+) for people to pay over 30K for a STI variant.

You drop the weight, add things like CF, and put out 260hp+ and that's Cayman territory and it will be priced accordingly, i.e. closer to 40K.

And then it becomes a car that Toyobaru didn't intend it to be.

[Hanzo]

I'm pretty sure IF there is a turbo STI version coming out anytime soon it wouldn't be lighter than the current. Turbo, turbo piping, intercoolers, larger brakes, wider wheels and tires, etc all adds weight to the car. I would say it would end up being around 3100 lbs.

[2fast4you]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I've never done extensive research nor bought aftermarket brakes before. My only experience is that the G35 was the heaviest car I ever owned but had the best consistent stopping power I ever felt.

Big brakes don't always equal better stopping distance. Most people think they stop shorter because most BBKs use more aggressive pads with higher initial bite than OEM pads. Just upgrading pads and fluid will give the feel most people want out of a BBK for the street... for frequent track days, a BBK may be needed like in my avatar.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^Rather than trolling why don't you say something intelligible and edumacate me. I've never done extensive research nor bought aftermarket brakes before. My only experience is that the G35 was the heaviest car I ever owned but had the best consistent stopping power I ever felt. So flame my enthusiasm.

Most people assume bigger brakes, and more pistons equate to improved stopping distance. Realistically this isn't true, at least at face value.

The stock brakes will be more than capable of bringing this car to 100 - 0 very quickly. In fact they will be powerful enough to full lock and cause ABS to kick in. Because of this, I would not expect a BBK to help decrease stopping distance at all.

What upgraded brakes will do is this;

Bigger brakes and better pads will allow for improved cooling/heat dissipation. That means that brake fade will be less of an issue (only helpful if you track your car aggressively).

More pistons don't increase stopping power, instead they giver better feel and more even pad wear. This is helpful, but will not be that noticeable in a non track car.

For most car enthusiasts the best stopping mods you can do would be better tires, better brake pads, better brake fluid, and possibly some practice/training. a true BBK, costs 5k+ and is purely cosmetic unless you are on the track.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Hanzo

I'm pretty sure IF there is a turbo STI version coming out anytime soon it wouldn't be lighter than the current. Turbo, turbo piping, intercoolers, larger brakes, wider wheels and tires, etc all adds weight to the car. I would say it would end up being around 3100 lbs.

350lbs for all of that? You must be crazy. I would venture to say 100-150lbs instead for a weight total of 2870-2920 lbs.

FA20 turbo=50-70 lbs heavier
STI sport pkg=30-40 lbs heavier(Hyundai's Rspec is 40 lbs heavier than base)

Remember the wheels would be lightweight and the brakes probably weigh 10 lbs more. Suspension probably wouldn't add much weight

[Hanzo]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

350lbs for all of that? You must be crazy. I would venture to say 100-150lbs instead for a weight total of 2870-2920 lbs.

FA20 turbo=50-70 lbs heavier
STI sport pkg=30-40 lbs heavier(Hyundai's Rspec is 40 lbs heavier than base)

Remember the wheels would be lightweight and the brakes probably weigh 10 lbs more. Suspension probably wouldn't add much weight

Of course it's all speculation but don't under estimate the weight when you start adding them up from here and there. Don't know if you ever held a turbo in your hands before but it's pretty damn heavy.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Hanzo

Of course it's all speculation but don't under estimate the weight when you start adding them up from here and there. Don't know if you ever held a turbo in your hands before but it's pretty damn heavy.

Not to mention the very heavy cast iron manifold, which would be even heavier on this car compared to an inline 4 manifold which are plenty heavy enough.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Hanzo

Of course it's all speculation but don't under estimate the weight when you start adding them up from here and there. Don't know if you ever held a turbo in your hands before but it's pretty damn heavy.

Why don't we ask a Subaru guru about the weight of a Subaru stock turbo then.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

Most people assume bigger brakes, and more pistons equate to improved stopping distance. Realistically this isn't true, at least at face value.

The stock brakes will be more than capable of bringing this car to 100 - 0 very quickly. In fact they will be powerful enough to full lock and cause ABS to kick in. Because of this, I would not expect a BBK to help decrease stopping distance at all.

What upgraded brakes will do is this;

Bigger brakes and better pads will allow for improved cooling/heat dissipation. That means that brake fade will be less of an issue (only helpful if you track your car aggressively).

More pistons don't increase stopping power, instead they giver better feel and more even pad wear. This is helpful, but will not be that noticeable in a non track car.

For most car enthusiasts the best stopping mods you can do would be better tires, better brake pads, better brake fluid, and possibly some practice/training. a true BBK, costs 5k+ and is purely cosmetic unless you are on the track.

My take away from this is bigger brakes are not always better. But even pad wear is always good, regardless of track or street. More durable parts>less durable parts. With all other things equal (tires, pads, fluid, skill) I still say better brakes (not necessarily bigger) can make stopping and maintenance better but would not be justified unless there is an increase in weight/power...

This assumes there will be an increase in power. Hints have been dropped on that happening. In a Top Gear Magazine review Subaru engineer Masuda-san asserted the BRZ will never see factory forced induction because they would have to add chassis reinforcements (read: weight) thus abandoning the "handling delight" essence of the car. But he did say, "We can fit tougher valve springs, and that would allow the BRZ to rev much higher, maybe to 9,000rpm."

If STI has a bump in power, I would expect upgraded brakes.

[Hanzo]

I like the idea of 9K RPM.