Drift-Office : AVO Turbo Kit Stage 1 ~ 91 Octane Calibration

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by vubaru

I think the kit as-designed is flawless, there are simply adjustments that have to be made at stage 1 for crappy gas and/or aftermarket exhausts.

I honestly think that the gas in itself is the problem here. Nothing else IMHO. The kit is very capable, and it's been proven what it can do with 92 octane, thought it was unfortunate that our first calibration with 91 octane was with poor quality gas... :S

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[nonicname]

eventhough the torque line is great, the amount of tq seems low, is that because of the 91 oct?

It's a shame they show what the new WRX will look like cuz now I'm just gonna wait for that sexy thing! if not I would've gone AVO all day long.
you guys do an amazing job.

[liteyouup]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

I doubt that you're using low grade 91 Octane fuel either. Certainly, you don't see it in our Stage 1 / 1.5 / 2.0 tunes using 92 octane. It could very well just be bad / low quality gas that's used in this customer's car.

Like I said, it was pretty suspect and I feel that this was a happy medium. As mentioned, there will be further testing in the near future. 91, 92, 93 (Ethanol FREE!) and 94 are all going to be used on the AVO kit when I get mine installed...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Not all of us are spoiled with "princess gas"

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by liteyouup

Not all of us are spoiled with "princess gas"

This is an unfortunate truth, but then again, so is expecting miracles to happen when using said 91 octane in any FI setup, much less one in a HC DI motor.

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[Huehuecoyotl]

Seems cali and AZ gas is the worst

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

This is an unfortunate truth, but then again, so is expecting miracles to happen when using said 91 octane in any FI setup, much less one in a HC DI motor.

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

This wouldn't even be a discussion if this kit had an external wastegate. You are just asking a lot from that internal gate.

I have seen it before. Some internal gates creep when you run low boost because they are inherently smaller. It is a physical limitation. I have experienced this first hand on a previous vehicle.

I have NEVER seen someone blame the gas for boost creep. In the 2 decades or so of boosting cars. That doesn't mean I am correct. Just saying.

That being said, like I mentioned earlier, having a tiny bit of creep at super low boost, on a excelently designed internally wastegated system that performs beautifully... is not really an issue. The kit is great and no one is challenging that. I don't think anyone is going to be concerned about holding 5 psi for 75% of the band and 6 psi for the last 20% for example. I actually kinda like that since it masks the naturally poor VE of the motor in that range.

I seriously think any setup that is creeping a tad towards redline just needs to bump up the psi 1-1.5 psi IF you don't like the creep.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I have NEVER seen someone blame the gas for boost creep. In the 2 decades or so of boosting cars. That doesn't mean I am correct. Just saying.

Not saying you are or you aren't, but we will revisit this discussion once I get quality 91 octane gas in the system; after all, that's the only difference between all the builds done to date at my facility and this one.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[nonicname]

I remember people blaming gas back when they were working on stage 1 for the WRX. it' ended up being that it wasn't the gas, the car was so aggressively tuned stock that stage 1 wouldn't give any more HP just torque.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I have NEVER seen someone blame the gas for boost creep. In the 2 decades or so of boosting cars. That doesn't mean I am correct. Just saying.

Originally Posted by nonicname

I remember people blaming gas back when they were working on stage 1 for the WRX. it' ended up being that it wasn't the gas, the car was so aggressively tuned stock that stage 1 wouldn't give any more HP just torque.

Gents - I'll address your contentions once again :

We have already proven with 92 octane what more gains you could get with a basic Stage 1. Sure, there's been generations of boosted vehicles as well. Decades even. But name a build @ 12.5:1 CR that was boosted with 91 octane in the last 20 years? Much less one with DI even?

With this setup, some things are typical, others aren't. The type of fuel and quality will be deciding factors when all things are equal. Considering the number of kits installed and their numbers, this is the only kit tested on 91 octane thus far, outside Vubaru's. Even his on 91 octane had proven to be better...

My 2 cents...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[nonicname]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

Gents - I'll address your contentions once again :

We have already proven with 92 octane what more gains you could get with a basic Stage 1. Sure, there's been generations of boosted vehicles as well. Decades even. But name a build @ 12.5:1 CR that was boosted with 91 octane in the last 20 years? Much less one with DI even?

With this setup, some things are typical, others aren't. The type of fuel and quality will be deciding factors when all things are equal. Considering the number of kits installed and their numbers, this is the only kit tested on 91 octane thus far, outside Vubaru's. Even his on 91 octane had proven to be better...

My 2 cents...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

didn't mean to accuse anybody of anything, just saying.
I'm sure this has been posted somewhere but do we have number on 93oct for this kit?

[sw20kosh]

Well it is obvious the gas quality is causing something. It may not be a direct effect is all I am saying.

It may be a cause-effect chain:

bad gas ----> retard ----> wastegate hits its limit ----> creep

Instead of simply:

bad gas ----> retard ----> creep

[Drift-Office]

[quote=sw20kosh;834979]Well it is obvious the gas quality is causing something. It may not be a direct effect is all I am saying.

Originally Posted by nonicname

didn't mean to accuse anybody of anything, just saying.

I'm sure this has been posted somewhere but do we have number on 93oct for this kit?

No no, you guys are right, nothing accusatory or anything, just wanted everyone to be on the same page, Therein, the short answer is, bad 91 Octane has it's limitations.

We've got a 93 pump nearby, I'm thinking of getting that tuned on a MT with a production manifold but that next one is due mid-may... Stay tuned, as usual!

Regards!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[Huehuecoyotl]

This is higher compression than your older EJ....makes boosting that much less safe at the limits with lower octane. Knock Knock is never a joke on our forum.

[sw20kosh]

It actually bogles my mind that this engine is taking 9 psi +

I mean 12.5:1 CR.... jeeeezzz