Should Subaru release a motorsport version of the BRZ?

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

Scuby- All ecu monitor those parameters. I've had 4 subies, 2 sti's the latest with an upgraded turbo. Anyways no it only monitors/changes these in the basic way, there are newer ecu's where supposedly you can switch between say 91, and 100 octane and you will increase timing and even boost automatically by filling up gas, not changing any tuning paramters manually.. I can't confirm how well it works.

Subaru offers tons of parts, from strut tower, front cross member braces, pillowball endlinks/ trailing arms, theres pretty much everything.



You make think its a pipe dream but pretty odd if Subaru decided to show the nearly road ready sti concept a couple weeks before the production model was shown, after a year and a half wait with nothing.

I think the pipe dream comments were about the racecar for 15k. Until real pricing comes and in the unlikely event Subaru would even offer the shell for sale for race car build, it is pretty close to impossible that you can do a real track ready BRZ for 15k.

I don't doubt subaru will offer race oriented components at a nice profit margin for the company to people who want it. I am less sure that Subaru would do a "stripped down" version at this point. I think STI version may happen if there is a market. Anyhow its all speculation at this point. Other than a bunch of journalists gushing over the handling we have very little real performance info to go on.

[Scubynubie]

I'm familiar with the stripped down "body in white", but that is not what I was looking for.

I do mean something in the vein of the S2000 CR or 911 RS America. A production car that is street legal, but that you could take to the track or autocross course and be very competitive right out of the box.

This comes out of the fact that the original weight released for the car was around 2600 lbs, and now it looks like it will actually be almost 2800 lbs when it lands here in the US.

If they were to get rid of a lot of those frilly things that don't help with going fast, and put that money towards things that do, then I think that the BRZ/FR-S would be much more appealing to those of us that want to compete in the car.

IMO, I doubt that Subaru especially would do something like this because they really do not support weekend racers at all, and that is what I would like to see change most of all.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

Yeah, I can tell you know that going about ordering a race car shell form subaru is not going to save you any money. Thats ridiculous does anyone even have a drivers license on here?

Ordering shells like that is for race teams that will be spending 100 thousand dollars a year to compete, maintain and travel their car.

Get real, if you can't afford the regular brz YOU SURE AS SHITE aren't going to be racing one.

Do you realize how many components from a totaled STI would be a direct (and better) swap? There is no need to dismiss the potentially good idea so quickly, especially with wrecks going for ~$10K.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

LOL, you mean the ej engine mounts? THe brakes, the rims, none of that fits, we don't even know the ej25 would fit especially in turbo'ed form. The fuel system/intake would not work, need custom development, not to mention the bell housing.....the sti is awd drivetrain. LOL.

This is a high hopes and totally silly. If you have ever owned/modified a car you know how pie in the sky this idea is.


Shells are for race teams with huge budgets, not for a cheapskate trying to get a brz for 10 grand cheaper.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3104

Most of us think it's Ej swapped..

[Homemade WRX]

I'd certainly hope it isn't EJ swapped, considering we already know they have FA turbo engines in the works. However being if it's just a drift team without engineering support, it may very well be just a shell with an EJ dropped in. It would be simple enough to do.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

LOL, you mean the ej engine mounts? THe brakes, the rims, none of that fits, we don't even know the ej25 would fit especially in turbo'ed form. The fuel system/intake would not work, need custom development, not to mention the bell housing.....the sti is awd drivetrain. LOL.

This is a high hopes and totally silly. If you have ever owned/modified a car you know how pie in the sky this idea is.


Shells are for race teams with huge budgets, not for a cheapskate trying to get a brz for 10 grand cheaper.

Subaru's.
They mean it when they call these cars Legos, most of the stuff you mentioned should be able to fit.
This isnt about being cheap, its about building your own car. If its done with patience and know-how it can be much cheaper than you assume, but you do have to pay to play in the end.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

I just mean the big reason for subaru to offer something like this is much more likely for a race team with big bucks than for a little guy building a cheaper car, hes's prob better off finding pieces of both cars on his own.

I agree subarus are like that im a subie guy, but the new rwd eliminates the chance of transmission swap, so you'd need custom housing to put brz tranny to ej if it were even possible, were pretty sure of the bolt pattern which is indicating no brembo swap from sti or rims, only 04sti small production relative to other years shares the 5X100, likely the fmic stuff will need to be custom as well. We definitely know the DI will not swap onto an ej plug and play. Not looking like the sti is going to be a great swap candidate at least not older ones,

If the FB shares the same trans bolt pattern as the EJ then the FA will as well (I have no idea if that's the case or not).

All you need from the 04 STI is rotors. Any 04-11 STI front calipers bolt up (although won't be proper as discussed in some brakes threads) and 04-07 rear calipers... and the parking brake stuff if you want the parking brake to function.. and pads of course.

A BIW BRZ will be at least 5k if they ever sold it. Add in all of the parts to build it as a race car and there is no way you'll be under 15k IMO.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

If the FB shares the same trans bolt pattern as the EJ then the FA will as well.

Exactly +1 I was always under the impression that the FA FB and EJ closer relatives to each other in design than even Nissans VG series.

All you need from the 04 STI is rotors. Any 04-11 STI front calipers bolt up (although won't be proper as discussed in some brakes threads) and 04-07 rear calipers... and the parking brake stuff if you want the parking brake to function.. and pads of course.

Yep from moto's Article sounds like Impreza 5x100 brake hardware will bolt up properly without much modification. (I hope the factory BMC&BB are big enough to support larger calipers)

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

The problem here is finding used 2004 sti calipers. There were not that many 2004's, first year. The bolt pattern/hubs changed after. The bring a premium price just like the bbs 5X100 v. 5X114 400-500 vs. 1000

There won't be enuff to go around thats for sure, there isn't 5X100 hardware to be had.

You didn't read my post or his. 04-11 STi/STI Front Calipers fit. 04-07 (at least) STi/STI rear calipers fit.

However, fitting doesn't mean working correctly due to the caliper design and mounting location, UNLESS the STi/STI calipers have a second spot for a bleeder on the opposite end of the caliper. The reasoning for that is that the calipers are differential-bored so they are directional. If you keep the left on the left but move it from the rearward side of the rotor (like the STI is) to the frontward side of the rotor (like the BRZ) the pistons will be correct but the bleeder will be on the bottom, which isn't good. If you swap sides, the bleeder is fine, but the piston bores are backwards, which also isn't good.

So literally the *ONLY* 2004 STI dependant part are the rotors. Nothing else.

A much cheaper upgrade will hopefully be newer LGT front rotors and caliper brackets (and maybe calipers if the BRZ calipers have smaller pistons and/or don't fit on the LGT brackets).

And that's assuming a brake upgrade will be needed. It absolutely WILL NOT be needed for the street, and even on track cars will only be needed if the OEM brakes can't keep up with the repeated high speed stops, assuming the car has enough power to even experience repeated high speed stops without cooldown (assuming track pads and good fluid).

If you are doing it for looks none of this would probably concern anyone though.

Price difference for the same model and size wheels just because of the bolt pattern btw? Example? I've never seen that.

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

Yeah, I can tell you know that going about ordering a race car shell form subaru is not going to save you any money. Thats ridiculous does anyone even have a drivers license on here?

Ordering shells like that is for race teams that will be spending 100 thousand dollars a year to compete, maintain and travel their car.

Get real, if you can't afford the regular brz YOU SURE AS SHITE aren't going to be racing one.

Relax man. I think people get too worked up over posts. I know its not possible since I have spent money on modding before. Stupid number to throw out there I admit. That being said I will not pay more for a stripped version. I'd rather sell the parts I strip off to get the stripped version result. Now a stripped down version for cheaper would be cool though I doubt it will happen that way. Less seem to cost more if you follow Porsche formula.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by lfawishes

No you aren't reading my post. You are incorrect about the 04-07 calipers fitting no problem, the hubs wrong after year 04, it changed in 05/06/07 to what WILL NOT FIT the BRZ. Also they would require the sti front struts

IF you swap to the abudant years 05/06/07 you will need the struts and 5X114 wheels.

Also to swap the rears require a special adapter either way you go

to be clear 05/06/07=5X114 hubs
04=5X100

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1432536

so if you get 04 calipers you are good but need a special bracket for the front ( i assume strut doesnt matter)
if you get 05/06/07 the likely years, you need new rotors=not cheap, strut, and adapter for the rear

at this point you really probably want to go 5X114 and you are going to pay a lot of money for a USED BBK

You are NOT swapping the hubs. There is no need to. The STI caliper bolts onto the KNUCKLE. The 04-07 STI *CALIPERS* are exactly the same (and 04-12 all work) and bolt directly onto the WRX Knuckle, and the BRZ knuckle.

You need new rotors for any year STI calipers as they are spaced off the knuckle to accept the larger 12.8" STI rotors. If you skip that part you won't have much brakes at all.

This has already been done on a BRZ without changing knuckles/hubs by Greddy, just using 2004 STI rotors.

I've seen two stories for the rear.. first is:
The rear STI calipers from an 04-07 also bolt right onto the BRZ, but you won't have a parking brake (due to the drum parking brake used on the STI vs the BRZ using the sliding caliper).

Second is:
You need 08+ STI calipers and redrilled 08+ STI rotors.

Greddy already did both ends of the car, without changing the knuckles or using any special adapters/parts.

Oh and here: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...cion-fr-s.aspx

Personally the expense of the parts outweigh the need/benefit for me, especially considering the potential caliper issues (differential-bored piston/bleeder issue). The newer LGT fronts are almost as large (12.4"x30) but can use a simple sliding caliper. Yeah, not good for looks, but they work fine.

Even the stock brakes are made for cars weighing in at 3200-3400lbs or so, they will be awesome in this car on track IMO.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Scubynubie

A production car that is street legal, but that you could take to the track or autocross course and be very competitive right out of the box.

Originally Posted by Scubynubie

Basically, a BRZ that is as light as possible, and gives you just what you would want if you were building a race car, but none of the things that you would just tear out. And make it light as possible at the same time.

Then your original description is completely inaccurate. Half the crap you want on your stripped out street car would be pulled off and ebay'd on day 1 of a race car build.

Originally Posted by lfawishes

...ordering a race car shell form subaru is not going to save you any money. Thats ridiculous does anyone even have a drivers license on here?

Ordering shells like that is for race teams that will be spending 100 thousand dollars a year to compete, maintain and travel their car.

Get real, if you can't afford the regular brz YOU SURE AS SHITE aren't going to be racing one.

Originally Posted by lfawishes

Shells are for race teams with huge budgets, not for a cheapskate trying to get a brz for 10 grand cheaper.

Who in this thread said anything about building a low budget street car? Not Max Schnell, and certainly not me (hint: BIWs don't have VINs). I, at least, was talking about actual race cars, not street cars or tuned track day/autocross cars. And if you were building a race car, and it absolutely had to be an AS1, you would save a considerable amount of time, effort and money by buying a BIW.

Originally Posted by lfawishes

LOL, you mean the ej engine mounts? THe brakes, the rims, none of that fits, we don't even know the ej25 would fit especially in turbo'ed form. The fuel system/intake would not work, need custom development, not to mention the bell housing.....the sti is awd drivetrain. LOL.

This is a high hopes and totally silly. If you have ever owned/modified a car you know how pie in the sky this idea is.

Why would you even want to use any of that crap on a race car? (OEM engine mounts included)

[coyote]

Dave-ROR is 100% correct. I'm not sure what the other poster is on about.

[coyote]

Subaru have for a long time sold bare bones race cars. They are for real race teams, not people who want to build street cars. As pointed out, they don't have RIN plates and cannot be registered. Generally they only suit those who are building to GroupN specs as even those cars are full of stuff that a dedicated track car would throw in the bin.

Thought I'd check back on this forum to see if the level of discussion had improved. It hasn't.