Is the tC still relevant?

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by ZDan

tC was *never* relevant.

Exactly SCION/Toyota drug the previous model through the ringer w/ very minimal change and it got stale fast (like they do w/ the other brands

Originally Posted by tranzformer

BMW would say other wise.

[Quentin]

I think it is still relevant. The FR-S will be, at best, $22k (higher, more likely). The xB is at $17k. The tC fills the middle ground in utility and sport between the FR-S and xB. The tC has a more practicality than the FR-S thanks to the liftback and rear seats that adults can comfortably use. It has some decent sporting credentials with a great steering wheel, good seats, 6MT standard, double wishbone rear suspension, and 180hp. Particularly in cases where parents are buying cars for their kids, they may come to see the FR-S and drive home in a tC thanks to the more predictable nature of FWD and better cargo capacity.

What Scion needs to make is a tC with 4 doors akin to a 4 door Golf/GTI. It wouldn't be as big as the xB, but nearly as practical and a lot more fun to drive.

[bambbrose]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Particularly in cases where parents are buying cars for their kids, they may come to see the FR-S and drive home in a tC thanks to the more predictable nature of FWD and better cargo capacity.

This is the entire reason why Toyota put the 86 under the Scion name. They even said so themselves in the interviews.

[NemesisPrime909]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I think it is still relevant. The FR-S will be, at best, $22k (higher, more likely). The xB is at $17k. The tC fills the middle ground in utility and sport between the FR-S and xB. The tC has a more practicality than the FR-S thanks to the liftback and rear seats that adults can comfortably use. It has some decent sporting credentials with a great steering wheel, good seats, 6MT standard, double wishbone rear suspension, and 180hp. Particularly in cases where parents are buying cars for their kids, they may come to see the FR-S and drive home in a tC thanks to the more predictable nature of FWD and better cargo capacity.

couldn't have said it better,

while the tC may not be THAT relevant to the "tuner" crowd, it is to the consumer. my local toyota dealership had FR-S banners in the area near the Scion portion and everyone i noticed kept asking about either the tC or xB

I think at this point a better question to ask is, "Is the xD still relevant?"

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by NemesisPrime909

couldn't have said it better,

while the tC may not be THAT relevant to the "tuner" crowd, it is to the consumer. my local toyota dealership had FR-S banners in the area near the Scion portion and everyone i noticed kept asking about either the tC or xB

I think at this point a better question to ask is, "Is the xD still relevant?"

Go a step up "Is SCION still relevant" because that is the question Toyota was asking awhile back...

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Windex73

sleekness can be found in both the xB and the xD

Originally Posted by Dillano609

fwd cars provide catastrophic under steer

Which is why they're safer. The average motorist is a complete moron.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Windex73

Is there really room for two sporty coupes in the Scion lineup? Aside from having a larger rear seat/trunk and a more forgiving ride, I see no other point on having the tC in the Scion lineup. Anyone else think Scion should eliminate the tC and slot the FR-S at the $19,305 price point the tC currently occupies?

HECK no....Even though the FR-S is more practical than say a Miata....a tC is more practical than an FR-S.

[DMDZK]

I think there are a couple misconceptions in this thread.


First, the BRZ/FT86/FR-S is a great car. I, like many others here, am very excited for it. That being said, it has little mass market appeal. It is low on power for an American sports car, it is small and largely unpractical, and finally it is RWD.


The tC despite, scion’s advertising, is not a tuner car. It is heavy for its power output, the glass ceiling makes it very top heavy, and the engine isn’t designed as a high performance motor. That being said, the new Camry motor is great and has characteristics that make it a great daily driver engine. That isn’t to say it can’t be driven like a sporty coupe, I certainly do, it is just sub optimal compared to other offerings.


What the tC is however, is a great mass market car. It has great amenities at its price point. (Even more so in 2005 when the MSRP was 16k) the styling (always subjective) is great. For most people it is more than enough power and has capable handling characteristics.


In regards to scion, which many consider to be unsuccessful, is anything but. Everyone remember Oldsmobile? They use to be a relevant car manufacturer until they woke up one morning and there average customer was 65… 7 years ago Toyota was in a similar position, they had affordable reliable cars, but one of the oldest average buyer ages (40). Their solution to this was to attract younger buyers to Toyota dealerships via unconventional marketing and youth oriented vehicles. They also needed to do this without negatively affecting Toyota’s brand image.


Enter Scion, more of a marketing arm than a new brand, they exist in the corner of Toyota dealerships have advertising and vehicles that appeal to younger buyers, sold cars in a non conventional manner (Scion Pure Pricing) and used mono-spec offerings to keep cost down while using dealer installed accessories as a primary source of dealer income.


Make no mistake, Scion is not Lexus, they are not intended to be a self sufficient brand distinct and separate from Toyota. It is a gateway product meant to maintain Toyotas relevance among younger buyers. As well as an advertising department that can have edgy and unconventional methods without alienating Toyotas current customer base.


Toyota is not stupid. The tC will not be cannibalized by the FR-S, for most people the FR-S requires too many compromise to be seriously considered as an alternative to the typical FWD sub 20k coupe category which it is in no way a part of, despite many “tuner/enthusiasts” comparisons.


Also First post...

[ahausheer]

Agree with most above. FR-S is way smaller than many on here may think/realize. Most people don't want a car that small. Thats why only a few thousand are expected to sell each year.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Windex73

Space/comfort along with sleekness can be found in both the xB and the xD. The tC seems like a waste of resources for Scion as a whole, it is the definition of "designed by committee."

Appropriate tires and prudent driving seem safer to me. Besides, Scion still has the xB, xD and iQ in the lineup all driven by the front wheels.

To which none of those (xB,D and iQ) are sporty. Nothing wrong with having a Civic Si competitor.


There is so much False information in this thread it's not even funny.....Someone commented about FWD having a lot of understeer. Why do you think Understeer is dialed into every car on the known planet from the Manufacture? EVERY car regardless of drive train, has a significant amount of Understeer dialed into it from the factory.....for...."saftey".

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Windex73

Is there really room for two sporty coupes in the Scion lineup? Aside from having a larger rear seat/trunk and a more forgiving ride, I see no other point on having the tC in the Scion lineup. Anyone else think Scion should eliminate the tC and slot the FR-S at the $19,305 price point the tC currently occupies?

The TC and FR-S serve different markets for the most part.

And do you really think if Scion killed their mass market TC they'd sell the FR-S at a huge loss... just because?

[Dragonitti]

tC is very much tuner friendly since it's aftermarket is abundant. So, whomever believes it's not a tuner vehicle...the aftermarket could have fooled me. Dang thing has a stroker motor for crying out loud.

[e30kawi]

Originally Posted by old greg

Which is why they're safer. The average motorist is a complete moron.

Incredibly true. The more drivers on the road, the dumber they are

[DMDZK]

I suppose I worded that incorrectly. The tC does indeed have a very strong after market following. Likewise, many tC owners have gone to great lengths modding their car. to say it isn't a tuner car would be flagrantly wrong.

I suppose what I mean is that despite this following it is far from being an optimal performance vehicle. especially one that would compete with the FR-S for market share.

the 2AR-FE engine is indeed extremely reliable and has posted some surprising numbers with mods since it is such a strong engine. but a performance engine it is not. remember this is a motor that was first engineered for and used in the Rav-4 and Camry.

More importantly, there is weight. The tC is portly and worse yet that weight is distributed poorly. The glass top and excessive body roll don't help either.

Can the tC become fast? Absolutely. Does it take comparatively more money/time/mods than other coupes in the same price range? Yes.