A pessimist's take on sales success / failure

[cassidy0998]

You have to realize that there is a market for people who buy cars who don't fit into the... market... eh hmm....

There is money be made off of people who fall in between the lines, because... well there's a ton of people out there. This car won't be mass produced like a Camry, it's more selective, like an STi. And Mazda still has enough of a reason to keep building the Miata. all seems good to me in the world of fun cars!

[Allch Chcar]

I would say Mustang, Camaro, and even Challenger disagree. Make something people want/need and they will buy it.

[pastuch]

I can't be the only one that test drove all those cars and disliked them. I'm 30 years old, I have a solid career, a house in the burbs, tennant income and a dog. The only thing I need now is another, new, different sports car to attract more 24 year old girls.

Toyobaru!

[KAuss]

The only way this car is going to fail is if they don't make enough to keep up with demands...

I'm 30 with my first baby, I'm using this as my DD and only vehicle...

[Kids Heart]

Originally Posted by KAuss

The only way this car is going to fail is if they don't make enough to keep up with demands...

I'm 30 with my first baby, I'm using this as my DD and only vehicle...

Me too! My 240sx is getting the job done right now. I have to tie down the front passenger seat because the infant carseat won't fit in the back with it upright. I was worried that my suspension would be too stiff but it just rocks him right to sleep.

By the time this car comes out he will be ready for a recaro convertible.

[Kids Heart]

On subject. This car is a halo car. It doesn't have to sell well, just bring people to the dealership.

[Aki]

The OP's quote is flawed for a bunch of reasons.

For one, the Civic Si (06-11) was a very successful car.

The Miata isn't a smashing success, but isn't a dismal failure either. Plus, the main reason why it's so niche is that it looks like a chick car, if not a rag-top toad. Phenomenal handling dynamics, terrible styling.

The S2000 sold way beyond projections when it came out 10 years ago, sales tapered off mainly cus it's so old.

Camaro and Mustang are RWD, heavy, but are selling really well (esp the Camaro relative to previous generations).

The quote also doesn't understand the demographic of this car. One very intentional target are empty nesters, older people from the 80s who have some disposable income, and who grew up remembering the AE86 (this is more of a Japan thing). At the same time it draws upon sports compact enthusiasts (Civic owners), autocross/track enthusiasts, and possibly some mainstream audiences.

At this point the big question is pricepoint. If they sell the barebones at $22k and low trim at $24k it's a winner.

[quik1987]

I disagree, it will sell like crack rocks. Based on looks alone.

[KAuss]

Originally Posted by Aki

The Miata isn't a smashing success, but isn't a dismal failure either. Plus, the main reason why it's so niche is that it looks like a chick car, if not a rag-top toad. Phenomenal handling dynamics, terrible styling.

Camaro and Mustang are RWD, heavy, but are selling really well (esp the Camaro relative to previous generations).

At this point the big question is pricepoint. If they sell the barebones at $22k and low trim at $24k it's a winner.

I didn't study the numbers on the MX-5 on sales, but I think Mazda has a lot to do with how well the car sells... There are a few factors to consider...

If you choose to go with a name that has a legacy, you are already trying to appeal to that certain demographic while alienating others due to the name alone... No matter how good / bad the car is, you're going to have potential buyers for and against it simply for the name...

Examples of this is purely for people who don't want the "girly / gay" badge associated with the Miata not wanting to buy it regardless of how well the car might fit their style... The flip side is for people who always had a Miata knowing they are driving one of the most fundamentally sound roadsters in the world looking for an upgrade, they're going to hawk over a forum just for every bit of info there is to leak of the next one... (ND)

The downside to this tactic is that the number of people who like the Miata probably already has one, and might not need another for some time... So your demographic is getting smaller and smaller as your buying base has more and more Miatas... While not growing any for people that already made up their mind about not even testing driving it based purely on the history...

For every one person that don't like the Miata's current look, there is about one person that does... I am in a camp of people that actually love the car's look entirely from head to toe... As is with the FT86 so far... (Concept II FTW though)

Now if Mazda was more aggressive into selling their MX-5 and try to appeal to more people through smart advertising, I'm sure their numbers will ALSO see huge benefits... However Mazda chose to use the moniker to carry the sales instead of the Apple approach and combine both smart advertising and moniker (i.e. many generations of iPods / iPhones)...

I personally never knew the draw of a Miata, or what it has to offer until I test driven one on a whim with a friend looking to lease something fun for himself... Boy oh boy when I did, it changed my life... Literally without exaggerating, my entire life... I'm only 30, so obviously I missed out on a lot of the earlier vehicles where light weight and raw power was the base of the design, and this FT86 is going to be my hope and dream I was driving in that era... I think Toyota / Subaru has a HUGE hurdle to overcome by not using a known moniker but it also means that a LOT of people is going to view this as something they can own without a drawback... So at least they're going to test it if anything rather than leaving it on the table without ever experiencing it... So that alone is a huge plus, just depends on how they advertise it now...

So like the Mustang / Camero, the name carries the vehicles a LOT because these are iconic names through the generations... There have been many success and flops carrying the Mustang name for quite a while, and the new vehicles having the retro look is IMO one of the huge reasons they're doing so well... I don't think the vehicles are any more fun to drive than their 80s / 90s counter parts... Nor would they be the right fit for anyone not doing straight line racing without gutting the vehicle and re working it from the ground up... However, straight line racing draws more people because it's the easiest form of racing one can get into... So you usually have more potential buyers if your vehicle appeals more to that crowd vs another design...

The FT86 is only going to fail by price point and supply, so yeah, I've always said it, must be less than WRX, and more than tC to make business sense... However, any alternative vehicle to the FT86 is a very radical design change and while MX-5 is great, I remember during the time there was also the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice as direct competitors... For the FT86, there is no direct competitor... I now hope Nissan comes out with a legit light weight RWD vehicle of their own named the 240... AWWWYEAHHHH baby...

TL;DR - Miata's name is a huge plus and also it's undoing, people know the name will either buy it or avoid it, FT86 is going to appeal to everyone at least once, Nissan needs to come out with a light weight 240 to compete directly with FT86 AWWWYEAHHHH!!

[FutureFT86]

Well personally I dont want the ft86 to become too popular otherwise everytime you turn your head you will see another one on the road. I dont want it to become so common like the civic....

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by FutureFT86

Well personally I dont want the ft86 to become too popular otherwise everytime you turn your head you will see another one on the road. I dont want it to become so common like the civic....

Why? Popular means a huge aftermarket and lots of people who are knowledgable with the car. I don't care if my car is common that makes no sense to me.

[Sparkplug]

I don't think the car will be a huge sales hit either. When you consider the Honda Civic Si, it is not really a niche car like this one will be. The Civic is still a mass produced model, and the Si only being the "sport" model of the particular car. Many people justify buying the car because it maintains Honda reliability, and practical space with day to day commuter abilities. I don't think we can compare the sales of this car potentially to something like the Mini either, which is a bit of a niche car. It just doesn't have the "cute" appeal that the Mini does have... or a massive hatchback for everyday useability.

The FT86/FRS/BRZ is being marketed as an enthusiasts car... rear drive, limited slip diff, manual transmissions aplenty, light weight, and a pure driving experience. Many people who are buying a normal car would skip right past this one as they would see it being a chore driving it daily. Light weight + rear drive and inclement weather typically don't mix either. I just don't see much room for the masses in this car, period.

I can only hope it sells on the scale of the Miata, but I'm doubtful of that as well.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Why? Popular means a huge aftermarket and lots of people who are knowledgable with the car. I don't care if my car is common that makes no sense to me.

I agree with Dave on this one. The only challenge with the flood of new users to this forum showing great interest is going to be initial production supplies, with each dealer getting one, maybe two cars a month.

I bet preorder deposits will be thru the roof, maybe unlike any other car that has come along in quite some time.

What other cars, that have come out in the last ten years, had very high preorder/ deposit numbers prior to production release?

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by pastuch

I can't be the only one that test drove all those cars and disliked them. I'm 30 years old, I have a solid career, a house in the burbs, tennant income and a dog. The only thing I need now is another, new, different sports car to attract more 24 year old girls.

Toyobaru!

Win! That is awesome!

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

What other cars, that have come out in the last ten years, had very high preorder/ deposit numbers prior to production release?

Nissan GT-r, and the most amazing car ever... the Skoda Yeti (in my best Jeremy Clarkson voice)