Flexfuel

[Buggy51]

... I don't think SF has any o.O

[Type[R]+]

Don't care, we can't get it here where I am, and it's relatively expensive where you can get it.

I'd be WAY more interested if this car was turbo, and there was a saving to be had by using E85.

At present here, it's more cost with no benefit.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by RRnold

No joke!!
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa....html#SanDiego

We don't do corn here in CA, we're all about Avocados!

Avocados work too .

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The mere fact that I have never seen an E85 pump anywhere and have never heard of any place with an E85 pump before now makes me say no, save the 100, no use for it now. If it becomes more common people can just do the upgrade later if they really like their old cars. Besides the higher octane is not much use if you don't have boost or higher compression ratios.

True. But that doesn't mean those of us who can get it should miss out though right? And there is probably Ethanol available where you're at just no E85 pumps .

Originally Posted by GenkiElite

E85 is great for tuning. Damn near race gas. Yes please!

There you go!

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think e85 is that much abetter for the environment since it requires almost as much energy from fossil fuels as ethanol produces

How do you figure? Have you seen the last info? And he's from France, I don't know what they use for Ethanol stock over there but I bet it's different from the crappy feedstock that dominates American Ethanol.

Originally Posted by Buggy51

... I don't think SF has any o.O

Nope, no public stations anyway.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Don't care, we can't get it here where I am, and it's relatively expensive where you can get it.

I'd be WAY more interested if this car was turbo, and there was a saving to be had by using E85.

At present here, it's more cost with no benefit.

I've heard of some dealers offering tunes for E85 in Australia. I'm guessing that's not where you are located though.

And shh, or you'll summon a flock of turbogulls!

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I've heard of some dealers offering tunes for E85 in Australia. I'm guessing that's not where you are located though.

And shh, or you'll summon a flock of turbogulls!

Not sure about dealers here offering E85 tunes? But our largest manufacturer (out of 3 lol) Holden has just made our 2011 Commodore series II update 'flex fuel' E85 compliant. This is because they exporting this model to Brazil! Just about all our cars sold here now are E10 compliant from factory though.

E85 is extremely rare in Australia. You might be lucky to find it in 5 capital cities (out of 8) here, and forget about anywhere else. None in my state at all, as well as the state next door (area = more than 1/2 of Australia). At the start of this year, there was 31 stations total in Australia selling it, and hoping to increase that to 100.

And in terms of providing an E85 compliant car for world market, I truly think it's a waste of time (at this point), for the simple reason: who's got it?

E85 is a tuners dream, no denying that, but for use in a NA car from factory? I fail to see any benefit on both price and performance, let alone the corrosion issues. Certainly a fuel for the future though.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

How do you figure? Have you seen the last info? And he's from France, I don't know what they use for Ethanol stock over there but I bet it's different from the crappy feedstock that dominates American Ethanol.

crappy feedstock makes for cheaper fuels which is kinda nice. but from what studies have shown making gasoline produces about .8 of the energy it takes to make it. ethanol produces the same amount of energy it takes to produce it once you factor in the pestacides and fertilizers and all the refining machinery. biodiesel yeilds about 3 times the energy it takes to make it.

[Allch Chcar]

Fatoni, I'm moving this conversation to Private message.

And Type[R]+, Ethanol is used in Europe, South America, and North America. There are plants under construction to use it in Russia and Japan. Having the cars compatible early means that when Ethanol is more widely available that people in slightly older cars can use it. The expected useful life for a car here is 17 1/2 years. The Global cost of Oil isn't going to get any cheaper. Ethanol costs are dropping. POET did a marvelous job with their new Cellose based Ethanol plant. They managed to drop the cost to produce a gallon from over $4 down to almost $2.

The big 3 American Auto Co. have started switching over their cars en masse to FFV compatibility. Whereas the Imports Brands, even though most of them already offer FFVs in Brazil or Europe, aren't on the bandwagon except for the CAFE loophole.

[WingsofWar]

Di Duel Fuel would be interesting, so im adding it to the thread.

Wiki

Twin-fuel engines
Code named Bobcat, the new twin-fuel engine from Ford is based on a 5.0L V8 engine block but uses E85 cylinder injection and gasoline port injection. The engine was co-developed with Ethanol Boosting Systems, LLC of Cambridge, Massachusetts, which calls its trademarked process DI Octane Boost. The direct injection of ethanol increases the octane of regular gasoline from 88-91 octane to more than 150 octane. The Bobcat project was unveiled to the United States Department of Energy and the SAE International in April 2009.

Using E85 on tap for direct injection as a low volume performance additive liquid to port injection gasoline.
We can get good economy
good peak performance
good reliabilty
cleaner emissions.

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by GenkiElite

E85 is great for tuning. Damn near race gas. Yes please!

This. Count me in. There's only a couple stations that carry the stuff around me, but the option couldn't hurt.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Fatoni, I'm moving this conversation to Private message.

And Type[R]+, Ethanol is used in Europe, South America, and North America. There are plants under construction to use it in Russia and Japan. Having the cars compatible early means that when Ethanol is more widely available that people in slightly older cars can use it. The expected useful life for a car here is 17 1/2 years. The Global cost of Oil isn't going to get any cheaper. Ethanol costs are dropping. POET did a marvelous job with their new Cellose based Ethanol plant. They managed to drop the cost to produce a gallon from over $4 down to almost $2.

The big 3 American Auto Co. have started switching over their cars en masse to FFV compatibility. Whereas the Imports Brands, even though most of them already offer FFVs in Brazil or Europe, aren't on the bandwagon except for the CAFE loophole.

I don't dispute that at all, just price vs performance isn't really there. Even price isn't really there.

We had a biodiesel plant here in town, ended up shutting down as they couldn't get the price down, and no one was buying it. Thats another point, apart from tuners and people in the know, who will buy E85? E10 here in Aust is a joke, and it ends up costing more to run it than normal petrol.

Us in Australia are currently going to get screwed over with a so called carbon tax. The biggest carbon tax in the worlds history! The current government in power is bringing this in because we have a hung parliment, and they are doing it because they need the support of the greens. They will be voted out by a landslide no doubt next year, but anyway, if this tax remains, we just might see an advancement in this ethanol tech. we are the laughing stock of the world! No reduction in emmissions! You guys are lucky Obama threw that shit out. What a joke.....

No doubt it's the fuel of the future, you can make ethanol from absolutely anything! The tech is catching up for sure, but it isn't mainstream. I give it 20 years or so.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Di Duel Fuel would be interesting, so im adding it to the thread.

Wiki


Using E85 on tap for direct injection as a low volume performance additive liquid to port injection gasoline.
We can get good economy
good peak performance
good reliabilty
cleaner emissions.

We got very similar to that here in Australia, with Ford having liquid LPG injection. It basically freezes the intake air charge.

The turbo tuner guys do the same over there in USA with methanol injection. Seems popular.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes

This. Count me in. There's only a couple stations that carry the stuff around me, but the option couldn't hurt.

+1

[WolfpackS2k]

The only thing I have to say about ethanol is f*ck the US government for forcing us to put it in our automobiles, most of which are not designed for it. I am, of course, referring to the 10% ethanol blended into gasoline.

But good luck getting those subsidies yanked with the powerful corn lobby looking after it

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Di Duel Fuel would be interesting, so im adding it to the thread.

Wiki


Using E85 on tap for direct injection as a low volume performance additive liquid to port injection gasoline.
We can get good economy
good peak performance
good reliabilty
cleaner emissions.

Yeah, that is an awesome concept. I noticed it a couple years ago but there isn't any OEM working on actually implementing it . Ford is continuing to pump out the FFVs without any effort to improve performance like the ethanol boost engine. Ricardo's had something similar but it was more of a FFV designed to accommodate the differences in fuel performance by using a mixture of a turbocharger and exhaust gas recirculation.

I believe that those engines are 10-20 years out at least. FFVs are going to be the norm for awhile. They are far cheaper to design and implement than either of those concepts.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The only thing I have to say about ethanol is f*ck the US government for forcing us to put it in our automobiles, most of which are not designed for it. I am, of course, referring to the 10% ethanol blended into gasoline.

But good luck getting those subsidies yanked with the powerful corn lobby looking after it

I figured this thread would get plenty of controversy, it's only natural considering how much debate there is over Ethanol. But it would help if you were actually ontopic Wolfpack X). What do you think about E85 being optional to using Gasoline? Aka FFV or flexfuel compatible.

And everyone for contributing! I know how hard it is to stay ontopic.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The only thing I have to say about ethanol is f*ck the US government for forcing us to put it in our automobiles, most of which are not designed for it. I am, of course, referring to the 10% ethanol blended into gasoline.

But good luck getting those subsidies yanked with the powerful corn lobby looking after it

if you are going to be mad at a powerful lobby corn isnt what you should be shouting about. oil is what is causing issues