Interesting take on 2012 GT-R

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

When your at the top haters gonna hate. Almost every supercar has a DCT yet they still bitch and complain about the GT-R having one with no manual. The Veyron, the 458 Italia, the LF-A, and the Aventador. All of which I bet is terrific cars to drive.

The LFA does not have a DCT.

which by deduction ...would best to assume this post is not credible

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

The LFA does not have a DCT.

which by deduction ...would best to assume this post is not credible

For point of argument, it's close enough.

It's not a stick shift.....

[Levi]

+1 Snaps

This is the difference between the european gentleman racers and the japanese adrenaline racers.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Makes sense! Automatic transmission and mostly computer aided, the GTR practically drives itself! With that being said, if given the opportunity between and R34 and an R35, I'd take an R34 in a heartbeat. I want to shift...

A million times this. Before the GT-R came out, I was hoping it would basically be an R34 Z-tune an a 21st century body.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

When your at the top haters gonna hate. Almost every supercar has a DCT yet they still bitch and complain about the GT-R having one with no manual. The Veyron, the 458 Italia, the LF-A, and the Aventador. All of which I bet is terrific cars to drive.

It's not about it lacking a manual, it's about the overall package. Many reviewers have said THE SAME thing about the Mclaren MP4xxxxx, and why thought it's fast, the 458 is still more appealing than it. In that same breath, I'd take a 430 Scud over a 458 any day of the week. in a modern context, the Aventador "gets it" but compared to the older Lambos, the "widow maker" appeal just isn't there. The LFA.. is somewhat of a dichotomy.. but I think the thing that irks GT-R fanboys the most is that Lexus "Got it"... at least according to Evo and quite a few others.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Bingo.

The same reason skydivers skydive, basejumpers basejump, and the reason most of us love going on those exhilarating amusement park rides so much. It's the adrenaline.

Think about it... Go on a bullet/magnet train and you'll feel pretty damn safe. Drive a racecar (just a reasonably fast one ~450hp) to 250km/h and you'll feel completely different. Drive something like the GTR to the same speeds and you'll feel safe where you didn't in the racecar. You'll feel like it's NOT going to kill you.

And guess what? Safety FEELS boring. THAT'S why the *real* enthusiasts want something raw, want something made with passion. Not something that is controlled by computers, not something that feels like it's normal for a car to go that fast. We want it to feel like we're breaking some sort of barrier that we shouldn't be.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Levi

This is the difference between the european gentleman racers and the japanese adrenaline racers.

This is where you are wrong, or just plain ignorant to reality.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Exage

I think we're beginning to reach the point where technology is starting to poke it's ugly head at us. It's a delicate subject in which people are able to have extremely different preferences in different areas on different vehicles.

So the question is: What is your preferred balance on a performance oriented system taking over control of certain aspects of the car?

Some find no enjoy in a system helping them drive faster or taking control of the car. It gives a certain detachment or de-sensitization from the experience leaving them underwhelmed.

Others enjoy outright performance. The car being able to take them to the very limit of what it is capable of.

Funny, reminds me a little bit of the constant (Auto vs. Manual) Transmission Debates.

I agree, it will always be an ongoing debate. I believe technology along with the science does play its role whether it's making our cars more safer, more efficient and more faster.

However what defines that thin line in making a car that much more worthwhile is that user experience no matter how much technology there is. That will always hold true with anything that is related to the consumer and especially when it comes to automobiles.

Yeah, the GTR was released at the worst time but its reviews dominated only b/c the driver didn't have to do much compared to its competition.

Drivers want options and if you offer that, it'll satisfy both sides.

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

A million times this. Before the GT-R came out, I was hoping it would basically be an R34 Z-tune an a 21st century body.

Even this dude got more soul than the GTR!



Matador, do you remember an old article posted here about one of the Prince Engineers of the 280z (I think it was Yoshihiko Matsuo) talking about how the GTR lacked that fun factor. I was trying to find it but no dice.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

...it's about the overall package....

Overall package indeed. The GT-R is hella capable when compared to the stopwatch. While I haven't driven one, friends of mine [including those in the auto media] that have driven it all say about the same thing; it's capable as all get-out but it's not very involving to a driving enthusiast.

If A-to-B is your goal, the GT-R nails it in terms of quick per dollar. If driving emotion and involvement is your goal, the GT-R simply isn't on your radar. The latter perspective is where the Yahoo author is coming from. Personally, that perspective resonates positively with me. It doesn't mean he's throwing a bitch-fit for the sake of making a name for himself, he's simply pointing out the GT-R is solely a performance car and not also a sports car*.

*performance car = quick against stop watch
*sports car = visceral, raw, involving for all senses, man/machine oneness

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

The same can be said about any car that's progressed. The old lambo's would kill you in a heartbeat, the new ones are boring in comparison. The best Evo was the 6.5. Rude, crude, didn't take any shit from anyone.

R32 gtr's are nothing on a r35, let alone an r33 or r34. It's evolution. I've driven all of them, and the r35 is a quantum leap ahead of the pack. It's typical Japanese, everything just works. Maybe people want that 'I'm going to die' feeling when driving their car?

this post sounds inconspicuously like a segment from top gear... Hmmm...

[Matador]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Even this dude got more soul than the GTR!



Matador, do you remember an old article posted here about one of the Prince Engineers of the 280z (I think it was Yoshihiko Matsuo) talking about how the GTR lacked that fun factor. I was trying to find it but no dice.

I tend to not use the term soul, because I think it's a cop out, and I know cars don't have soul. Character and Involvement is what I'd say. I do recall that article, but I'm not sure if it was the GT-R or the new Z he was talking about. It might have been posted by Axel and deleted along with many other post when he left

It's not this is it?

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I tend to not use the term soul, because I think it's a cop out, and I know cars don't have soul. Character and Involvement is what I'd say. I do recall that article, but I'm not sure if it was the GT-R or the new Z he was talking about. It might have been posted by Axel and deleted along with many other post when he left

It's not this is it?

Holy sh*t, I was way off!~

Yeah, that's the one! I thought of that article b/c he mentioned the control factor and being over-complicated. Even though he was talking about the Z, I feel a similar manner with the more advanced GTR.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

The LFA does not have a DCT.

which by deduction ...would best to assume this post is not credible

Big deal it's a single clutch type. My point is it's not a true manual either genius.

I'm pretty sure if Nissan wanted to they could've produce a GTR with RWD and a manual that's 300+ lbs lighter. It would aslo still be a bang for buck car since the price would drop significantly.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Big deal it's a single clutch type. My point is it's not a true manual either genius.

I'm pretty sure if Nissan wanted to they could've produce a GTR with RWD and a manual that's 300+ lbs lighter. It would aslo still be a bang for buck car since the price would drop significantly.

could they? i mean for starters they didnt so it doesnt matter but either way the car is huge and heavy so they need to reduce the slip angle as much as possible and without awd the gtr would loose a lot of its awesomeness. its almost like you are describing a ctsv

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by madfast

this post sounds inconspicuously like a segment from top gear... Hmmm...

Well, unlike in the USA, there's a million R32/33/34's on the roads here and they're very cheap. Interestingly, all 3 are slower than an integra type r around the streets.

I've got lots first hand experience in all 4 models, do you?

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Well, unlike in the USA, there's a million R32/33/34's on the roads here and they're very cheap. Interestingly, all 3 are slower than an integra type r around the streets.

I've got lots first hand experience in all 4 models, do you?

im not talking about the GT-R's. im talking about the lambos. the old lambos wanting to kill you and the new ones are too boring? that's straight out of hammond's review of the aventador....

anyways its preposterous to call a car like the aventador "boring" unless you're going for ratings like top gear. sure you can say its less exciting, etc. but to say its boring? thats complete bullshit...