Hybrid Discussion

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Most of the manufacturers seem to be working on them, what makes you think a flywheel and CVT are super expensive? It still seems a few years away, but Volvo seems to be ready with theirs.

Well the system controlling the flywheel transmission is pretty complicated so I don't think it'll be mainstream for at least some time, since there are probably a ton of reliability issues I'd imagine. Flybrid has had their thing working for several years already, but we have yet to see a single production car with it. A battery and motor make it very easy by comparison.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Drunk.... He has to be drunk!

That's not drunk. That's

[serialk11r]

Revive!
So I noticed a few things that I pointed out in random thoughts, maybe they'd belong better here. First of all, Subaru seems to be on a roll with developing new engine tech: electric turbo, mild hybrid system, and they have this fancy schmancy D4-S stuff in their toolbox as well now.

Second, the FA20 has horrid low end torque. If they want to make a higher revving FA20 for a BRZ for example, the low end torque would be even worse.

Third, Subaru is somewhat behind on CAFE standards and needs to boost their numbers. Since they're not Toyota size, they need all the EPA mpgs they can get from every single model, BRZ/WRX included.

So how about a mild hybrid BRZ STI? They can put some very aggressive intake cams on for fantastic high end power (say, 8500rpm rev limit, maybe like 240hp), and then a mild hybrid system to give silly low end torque (like, 250Nm at low speed, 150 from the engine 100 from the electric motor or something). If they're slightly clever and use ultracapacitors in conjunction with batteries, battery weight and more importantly COST can be dropped quite a bit as I believe the main reason for a large battery pack is so they can withstand more cycles of high rates of discharge and charging.

I looked into electric motors and such, getting rid of the alternator and starter would be close to offsetting the electric motor's mass gain. Throwing away the lead acid battery for a small lithium pack + ultracapacitor bank good for 100kJ would have no net weight gain, so the only thing you have to add is motor controllers and converters to power the rest of the car at a lower voltage and to feed the ultracapacitor bank from the battery and vice versa. Overall under 50 pounds gained weight. Shedding weight from body panels could easily result in a lower curb weight.

Another benefit would be that once a high voltage electrical system is in place, you have a good infrastructure for electrifying accessories and pumps if desired, and adding say Subaru's upcoming electric supercharging/electric turbogenerator, or future waste heat recovery systems would be very easy.

[neutron256]

My CR-Z rocks! It's a good example of how a hybrid can have a good compromise between good MPG and a little bit of fun performance. It's not a sports car but is sporty. The driving modes help too and feedback help too which could be done in any car not just a hybrid.

[serialk11r]

Yea seriously, the CRZ would've been a great car if they just used a K series motor or even just a tuned R18. Okay, maybe fix the bizarre front end styling too.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea seriously, the CRZ would've been a great car if they just used a K series motor or even just a tuned R18. Okay, maybe fix the bizarre front end styling too.

Or a turbo with the IMA for 187 bhp combined?

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...n/viewall.html

[serialk11r]

Turbo is more expensive than just sticking a k20 or even a ported r18 :p besides I don't like turbos the way they are currently.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea seriously, the CRZ would've been a great car if they just used a K series motor or even just a tuned R18. Okay, maybe fix the bizarre front end styling too.

There's no way the K would have gotten even close to the same MPG. It would have just been a 3 door Civic Si. FYI, the Civic SI only gets 21/31 on the EPA cycle.

I believe the fact that they made it a two seat hybrid killed it more in the US. People are buying them, they are cool looking after all. But they're not selling as much as Honda hoped.

I have respect for the Lea engine series they used in the CRZ as a fuel efficient engine but it's not the best way to start a hybrid with a 10+ year old engine simply retooled for the new car. They went for the cheap approach and completely lost out in the USDM market. JDM they sold better so I guess it was a draw in the end.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Turbo is more expensive than just sticking a k20 or even a ported r18 :p besides I don't like turbos the way they are currently.

But it's a hybrid turbo! Or are you proposing a hybrid K20? That would be a pretty cool hybrid CRZ.

[serialk11r]

I guess that's true, but 1.5 is just not enough displacement. They could be like GM and require super early shifts and all, and program the CVT to run the engine at no more than 2000 rpm lmao.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I guess that's true, but 1.5 is just not enough displacement. They could be like GM and require super early shifts and all, and program the CVT to run the engine at no more than 2000 rpm lmao.

The power is sufficient for the weight, and the CRZ has fairly short gearing. But even a Prius can maintain 80MPH. It just takes a bit to get there.

[serialk11r]

Sufficient for you, sufficient for me, not sufficient for the average American.

[madfast]

I would LOVE to see Toyota make a sporty Hybrid

Chassis: FR-S, possibly elongated if the engine sticks out way past the front wheels
Engine: how about a 3ZR-FE with Miller cycle? 3ZR-FSE?
Transmission: a version of the GS450h would do quite nicely

Make it a 2 seat coupe or roadster with folding hardtop. The battery pack can be Lithium ion that's mounted low, where the rear seats used to be. hp can be around 200ish, and for a HSD hybrid that would be very, very fast. last but not least, the most important thing toyota can do is program the HSD to be fun. im convinced the eCVT used in toyota's HSD can be fun if only they let it. heck the JDM CT200h comes with paddleshifters. there's no reason why they can't tweak the HSD to be a little less economical, for the sake of a little more fun.

[serialk11r]

The eCVT is unfortunately fully automatic, and very complicated to control Call me crazy, but the more stuff I get to control, the more fun I have, and having only a gas and brake pedal is a bit disappointing.

While a mild hybrid doesn't help EPA scores much, it can provide a sizeable real world benefit in fuel economy and allows 3 pedals and a stick