motor trend: next WRX based on ft86

[82mm 4g63]

300hp out of a 1.6l? They must've crossed wires with an RX9 article somewhere.

[Slimm]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Also, your hp figures on the Mini....you don't lose 40hp in powertrain loss on a fronter. I'd estimate that 220whp figures out to 230hp to the flywheel. Hell even if the cooper were RWD...that's a tiny ass powertrain, still wouldn't lose 40hp.

He was probably basing those numbers off the usual given 12-15% drivetrain loss. That doesn't seem too unreasonable. For your figures to make sense, there would have to be a 4% drivetrain loss to the wheels, which simply isn't the case.

[SVTSHC]

I'm not understanding why so many people are finding 300bHP out of a 1.6L to be so farfetched in regards to reliability and cost. This thing is supposed to drop two years from now and we've been making big power with small displacement for a while now. It's not as though they're shooting for 1.6L NA 300bHP, there are plenty of options they could explore. Take the new tri-turbo M3 that'll be making it's debut in 2014, they're running two turbos (larger than the current N54 platform turbos) and a third electric turbo for low end. There isn't enough info on this thing to rule out their figures as impossible.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I'm not understanding why so many people are finding 300bHP out of a 1.6L to be so farfetched in regards to reliability and cost. This thing is supposed to drop two years from now and we've been making big power with small displacement for a while now. It's not as though they're shooting for 1.6L NA 300bHP, there are plenty of options they could explore. Take the new tri-turbo M3 that'll be making it's debut in 2014, they're running two turbos (larger than the current N54 platform turbos) and a third electric turbo for low end. There isn't enough info on this thing to rule out their figures as impossible.

So called "Anti" aren't saying 1.6L 300hp isn't possible. Just saying it's not realistic #s. If that was the case, we would of seen any drivetrain w 1.6L turbo in recent car would of came w 300hp.

I know Subaru's technology have came long way... but twin turbo isn't gonna come out. Last time they did stock twin turbo, they failed bad... really bad. Twin turbo space isn't available for lhd (US cars) due to all the nightmare BS... unless they wanna do it like current Legacy... but that still have several problems to resolve.

They gonna use EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L... Current EL15 is joke. Yes, it come w DOHC & AVCS, but it weight & size about same as EJ (due to they use same parts). powerless & gutless. Yes, current EL is NA, so that's one of the reason for been powerless & gutless. MPG sucks as well, it has about same MPG as 2L (EJ20E).

Now, iirc Crawford or Cosworth gonna help w this project, but until I actually see the official spec, realistically 200~240hp is good #s for 1.6L stock.

[tranzformer]

Trust ichi, he knows his Subaru. Like I said earlier, 240hp can still be a lot of fun in a AWD car if they drop the weight down as well.

[[es vi: eks]]

I would like to have a look at the EL15 motor. Its one Subaru motor Ive actually never looked at.

I quite like the wee EJ15 Motor with roller cams. Its a nice wee unit.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I'm not understanding why so many people are finding 300bHP out of a 1.6L to be so farfetched in regards to reliability and cost. This thing is supposed to drop two years from now and we've been making big power with small displacement for a while now. It's not as though they're shooting for 1.6L NA 300bHP, there are plenty of options they could explore. Take the new tri-turbo M3 that'll be making it's debut in 2014, they're running two turbos (larger than the current N54 platform turbos) and a third electric turbo for low end. There isn't enough info on this thing to rule out their figures as impossible.

This just reminded me that in the 80s BMW created a Formula 1 engine based on the M10 that pumped out 1000hp @11,000rpms from a turbo 4cylinder 1.5liter.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

So called "Anti" aren't saying 1.6L 300hp isn't possible. Just saying it's not realistic #s. If that was the case, we would of seen any drivetrain w 1.6L turbo in recent car would of came w 300hp.

I know Subaru's technology have came long way... but twin turbo isn't gonna come out. Last time they did stock twin turbo, they failed bad... really bad. Twin turbo space isn't available for lhd (US cars) due to all the nightmare BS... unless they wanna do it like current Legacy... but that still have several problems to resolve.

They gonna use EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L... Current EL15 is joke. Yes, it come w DOHC & AVCS, but it weight & size about same as EJ (due to they use same parts). powerless & gutless. Yes, current EL is NA, so that's one of the reason for been powerless & gutless. MPG sucks as well, it has about same MPG as 2L (EJ20E).

Now, iirc Crawford or Cosworth gonna help w this project, but until I actually see the official spec, realistically 200~240hp is good #s for 1.6L stock.

With todays casting technologies, and other various items you could add to engine today vs 10-20 years ago. The problem why so many people are skeptical about a 300hp 1.6liter is because it isn't an engine a lot of people are familiar with. And only a hand full of people have any experience with 1.6 4cylinders that pump out that much power on old technology and old engine designs.

In todays automotive world, turbocharging is coming back with the fist of an angry god.

Citrroen DS3 WRC - 1.6L Turbo i-4 300hp
http://www.distrocar.com/2011-citroe...rged-di-engine

2013 Hyundai Veloster - Reports that a 1.6L Turbo I-4 200hp w/40mpg

Even small displacement engines with turbos are coming back to Formula 1 in 2013/2014

[82mm 4g63]

Carb cleaner really makes those pistons sparkle.

[Allch Chcar]

I'm surprised how much rage occurred here. As someone who has watched the 1 1/2 liter engines for a while I can say that 270PS(not BHP) is completely doable with a factory turbo 1.6L. It just hasn't been done before. The size is rarely turboed and rev happy since it's more commonly used to replace a torquer bigger 4 banger. The Veloster, Ford 1.6L turbo, Mini turbo, etc are all making peak power at 5-6k RPM. If a 1.6L with peak power past the 6k mark that makes 85BHP per liter was turbocharged to 1 bar it would make around 272BHP.

Getting it reliable just depends on how it's built.
Cheers!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Getting it reliable just depends on how it's built.
Cheers!

That's the problem w EL15. It should be reliable, but it's not. That's what I'm trying to say.

If they actually make 1.6L turbo w 300hp, I'm totally cheering for them... but I'm worry that how much mess they gonna go through in yr or so later.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

That's the problem w EL15. It should be reliable, but it's not. That's what I'm trying to say.

If they actually make 1.6L turbo w 300hp, I'm totally cheering for them... but I'm worry that how much mess they gonna go through in yr or so later.

wut.

The new engine isn't going to be a turboed version of the N/A EL15 it's going to be a worked over all out turbo engine right? Isn't that typically what Subaru does with their WRX lineup?

And the target is 270PS or 265BHP. Not 300BHP. It's for the WRX not the STI .

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

wut.

The new engine isn't going to be a turboed version of the N/A EL15 it's going to be a worked over all out turbo engine right? Isn't that typically what Subaru does with their WRX lineup?

And the target is 270PS or 265BHP. Not 300BHP. It's for the WRX not the STI .

iirc I thought they gonna be using EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L and blah blah blah for compatible for turbo. Just so far, I'm not hearing good feedback on EL15 engine on tuning.

Again, I can see stock 200~240hp (240hp was original WRX hp #s). As for STI they really need to work on internal IF they wanna push 280~300hp.

[CyberFormula]

I would like a 1.5 liter engine that pumps out 300hp

Sounds like a very special engine.

and that engine should be a boxer ...and in a balance chassis..and lightweight.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

iirc I thought they gonna be using EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L and blah blah blah for compatible for turbo. Just so far, I'm not hearing good feedback on EL15 engine on tuning.

Again, I can see stock 200~240hp (240hp was original WRX hp #s). As for STI they really need to work on internal IF they wanna push 280~300hp.

It will be really hard for them to sell the cars with less HP even if the weight is way down. Buyers are just stubborn that way sometimes. I think they could do 265 with a dedicated performance design, reliably (easily, if they have to homologate it for racing). And the North American STI could always go with a 2.0L turbo 'big block' version (beefed up turbo FT86 motor) and make 300+ no problem, while maybe the Euro and JDM STI gets a crazy VGT turbo 1.6L that revs out to 8500 and has 18 pounds of boost.