Track events are getting out of hand 7 run groups at BW!!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It’s the fact that there are 7 run groups, they can call them whatever, but dividing an 8 hour track day into 7 pieces means each group is going to get only slightly more then an hour of seat time, and that’s if nobody bins it and causes a yellow or red flag.

If the car count is low between groups and the emphasis is on kind of a time trial program I can see where this setup makes sense, given that they host 86cup and others, time trialers don’t want 2+ hours of seat time, they want 5-6 flying laps with clear track. That’s how gridlife and scca run their TT program iirc, the dollar per seat time value looks bad, but the competitive experience makes up for it. There’s other groups that emphasize track time, I think the golden gate lotus club does three groups, 20 minute sessions and by the end of the day the old guys are tired and you basically have a clear track and can get like three hours of seat time.

Small operations like this is where money talks OP.

OP forgot to mention that the Tesla run groups (yes, plural), are shorter, because the Teslas dont run as long on track anyways.

TL;DR OP paid for 4x20 minute sessions, and got 4x 20 minute sessions.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by andyk5

0 clean laps, just an “also ran” kind of day. Second lowest quality track day I have done so far. First being “tracked” at SoW.

Given 5 sessions worth of opportunity, this falls primarily on you, as the driver.

Part of getting clean laps is finding that window where you can get a clean lap.

For example, try gridding up first on your first session. You now control the pace of the outlap. Guaranteed clean lap your first hot lap.

[CSG Mike]

Ultimately, if you want more seat time or less groups, you gotta spend more money to get that time.

If you want less cars on track, then the cost per car goes up. You gotta spend more.


Remember that $219 is a CHEAP track day compared to most of the rest of the country.


Example: My client for the day ran two sessions; we were on track every hour. Spent double the money, got double the track time.

[andyk5]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ultimately, if you want more seat time or less groups, you gotta spend more money to get that time.

If you want less cars on track, then the cost per car goes up. You gotta spend more.


Remember that $219 is a CHEAP track day compared to most of the rest of the country.


Example: My client for the day ran two sessions; we were on track every hour. Spent double the money, got double the track time.

Look I know you have done a zillion more track events than I have but even then my sample size is not that small about 15 track days in early 2000’s and 15 recently, all on BW and Willow and this by far the most crowded. I have also never seen 7 run groups before. Also $200 seems to be about right for a BW track day, I paid as little as $169 with Slip Angle and as high as $220 with SpeedSF. None were like this. Hell even the last SpeedVentures event was 5 run groups i think.

In general temps coming down a bit so I expect the track days to get more crowded compared to 105F but still.

[Muskoka800]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

OP forgot to mention that the Tesla run groups (yes, plural), are shorter, because the Teslas dont run as long on track anyways.

TL;DR OP paid for 4x20 minute sessions, and got 4x 20 minute sessions.

Speaking of Tesla, the last time at TMP we saw they had paved an addition to the paddock and installed 5 or 6 Tesla chargers there. Surely we’ll start seeing them on the road course. They’re likely already enjoying the drag strip.
Didn’t see any generic chargers for other brands.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Muskoka800

Speaking of Tesla, the last time at TMP we saw they had paved an addition to the paddock and installed 5 or 6 Tesla chargers there. Surely we’ll start seeing them on the road course. They’re likely already enjoying the drag strip.
Didn’t see any generic chargers for other brands.

Buttonwillow just added a bunch of superchargers, and there's another lot of them 10 min down the highway.

It's becoming a thing, although Tesla themselves test at BRP here and there.

[CSG Mike]

This is a lap posted from the same day you were at Buttonwillow. Not be driving.

Doesn't seem like a ton of traffic to me.

[Molez93]

For what it's worth, my costs to run a two-day weekend at Watkins Glen with the local BMW club (Genesse Valley Chapter) are basically $650. For those in the most common run groups of intermediate or advanced, you get 4 or 5 25 minute sessions per day with a mixed bag of fairly open track time and modest congestion.


So... $650 gets you about 3.5 to 4 hours on track (assuming the usual caveats for issues which derail staying on schedule)

[andyk5]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is a lap posted from the same day you were at Buttonwillow. Not be driving.

Doesn't seem like a ton of traffic to me.

Well, this person managed to get at least one clean lap, maybe more maybe not, that information is not available.

I don’t think you expect everyones experience to be the same? I mean he could be slightly faster than everyone in his run group and get out first and have clean laps, I could be slight slower than some people in my run group, get out mid-pack and constantly battle traffic. This actually happens all the time. Maybe you run really fast for too long and forgot about the days being mid pack in a 25+ car run group.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by andyk5

Well, this person managed to get at least one clean lap, maybe more maybe not, that information is not available.

I don’t think you expect everyones experience to be the same? I mean he could be slightly faster than everyone in his run group and get out first and have clean laps, I could be slight slower than some people in my run group, get out mid-pack and constantly battle traffic. This actually happens all the time. Maybe you run really fast for too long and forgot about the days being mid pack in a 25+ car run group.

He's mid-pack in Red group. The gridding by time works; the car in front of you is faster, and the car behind you is slower.

Did you tell the staff at gridding an accurate time? If not, the only person you hurt is yourself.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

He's mid-pack in Red group. The gridding by time works; the car in front of you is faster, and the car behind you is slower.

Did you tell the staff at gridding an accurate time? If not, the only person you hurt is yourself.

This one thing that allows Speed Ventures to have more dense run groups and more cars is if everyone follows the grid by times.

[Muskoka800]

Three of us met at TMP yesterday (Monday) for 10am - 5pm Open Lapping.
5 cars only showed, of which three were us.
It showered a couple times but never enough to spoil things. The strong wind dried things in moments.
🏁

[downshiftxlr8]

Originally Posted by andyk5

Look I know you have done a zillion more track events than I have but even then my sample size is not that small about 15 track days in early 2000’s and 15 recently, all on BW and Willow and this by far the most crowded. I have also never seen 7 run groups before. Also $200 seems to be about right for a BW track day, I paid as little as $169 with Slip Angle and as high as $220 with SpeedSF. None were like this. Hell even the last SpeedVentures event was 5 run groups i think.

In general temps coming down a bit so I expect the track days to get more crowded compared to 105F but still.

I didn't see a problem with how SV ran the event. Got all the track time I paid for, as did a few of my friends.

[George Rosebush]

Every single time I've ever been gridded up by lap time by SV I end up near the back, behind a lot of much slower cars and am in traffic trying to pass almost the entire session. This is in both beginner and intermediate groups.