Head porting and flow numbers

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The capacity kit is their stroker kit. I don’t think there is much room for more lift with equal duration on a NA build. With low compression pistons someone gains room for more lift for a FI build. The best gains would probably come from larger valves, assuming the reliefs in the piston can accommodate larger valves and there is room to machine them, but I don’t know if this is just for FI like you said.

https://86speed.com/hks-camshaft-fa2...CABEgL2YvD_BwE



https://elementtuning.com/competitio...r-wrx-fa20dit/

The HKS kit has longer durations on top of more lift and is designed around their stroker kit. So if your point is there is not much room for more lift at equal duration, that is not a great example. I personally couldn't tell you without measuring it out myself but I don't believe other cams on the market such as the piper have an interference issue. The fast road has nearly the same lift and duration as the HKS.

You can ask Element yourself on the feasibility of going big valve on an NA build. That was what 86IT was told when he asked them. They said the cost benefit is just not there for what you are gaining, not that there wasn't a gain. I personally don't see the benefit of porting the FA heads aside from just cleaning up the casting marks and radius a few edges. There may be some gains from raising the floor as we mentioned above and blending the throat into the bowl more smoothly, but that is way beyond my skill set. If someone else like the OP wants to play, have at it.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The HKS kit has longer durations on top of more lift and is designed around their stroker kit. So if your point is there is not much room for more lift at equal duration, that is not a great example. I personally couldn't tell you without measuring it out myself but I don't believe other cams on the market such as the piper have an interference issue. The fast road has nearly the same lift and duration as the HKS.

You can ask Element yourself on the feasibility of going big valve on an NA build. That was what 86IT was told when he asked them. They said the cost benefit is just not there for what you are gaining, not that there wasn't a gain. I personally don't see the benefit of porting the FA heads aside from just cleaning up the casting marks and radius a few edges. There may be some gains from raising the floor as we mentioned above and blending the throat into the bowl more smoothly, but that is way beyond my skill set. If someone else like the OP wants to play, have at it.

My point was the HKS kit might cause interference on a stock setup. They clarify that in the ad without saying it that the kit is untested on the stock pistons or would cause interference issues, that the kit is made for their stroker kit that has reliefs in the pistons for such lift and duration. The Piper kit has slightly more lift and duration, so it might be safe to conclude the clearance is there, but their larger stage 3 cams likely require work.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3324462

With direct injection or valve angle, there might be design considerations to the combustion chamber that prohibits as much lift with compression ratio because I believe K motors have run 12.5:1 custom builds with more lift and duration, so different motors, but it is in the realm of possibility given an ideal design I guess.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/14...camshafts/amp/
https://www.kseriesparts.com/DCI-DC-...SABEgLv2vD_BwE

I agree that NA modifications are limited and the aftermarket support is not there to make things very cost effective for anyone who isn’t a DIYer. I haven’t seen higher compression builds, porting, larger valves or much valve work to raise the redline. Seems like there are always limitations like valve size making porting gains unrealized, piston clearance making big cams impossible, head wall thickness making much porting difficult or oil pressure issues making valvetrain upgrades for raising the redline very challenging. Besides all that, NA mods require a lot of optimization, so it is easier to just strap on FI, but then there may become a case for porting or larger cams on a lower compression build, yet I don’t see many people going that route on this platform because this motor and transmission can’t take big power, and without demand there is little aftermarket support.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

My point was the HKS kit might cause interference on a stock setup. They clarify that in the ad without saying it that the kit is untested on the stock pistons or would cause interference issues, that the kit is made for their stroker kit that has reliefs in the pistons for such lift and duration. The Piper kit has slightly more lift and duration, so it might be safe to conclude the clearance is there, but their larger stage 3 cams likely require work.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3324462

With direct injection or valve angle, there might be design considerations to the combustion chamber that prohibits as much lift with compression ratio because I believe K motors have run 12.5:1 custom builds with more lift and duration, so different motors, but it is in the realm of possibility given an ideal design I guess.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/14...camshafts/amp/
https://www.kseriesparts.com/DCI-DC-...SABEgLv2vD_BwE

I agree that NA modifications are limited and the aftermarket support is not there to make things very cost effective for anyone who isn’t a DIYer. I haven’t seen higher compression builds, porting, larger valves or much valve work to raise the redline. Seems like there are always limitations like valve size making porting gains unrealized, piston clearance making big cams impossible, head wall thickness making much porting difficult or oil pressure issues making valvetrain upgrades for raising the redline very challenging. Besides all that, NA mods require a lot of optimization, so it is easier to just strap on FI, but then there may become a case for porting or larger cams on a lower compression build, yet I don’t see many people going that route on this platform because this motor and transmission can’t take big power, and without demand there is little aftermarket support.

I agree, I think a lot of NA mods currently on the market are out to reduce torque dip and improve area under the curve. Things that people are looking to do to improve their daily driver and back road carver. There would probably be more to gain in the head if you were looking to do a higher RPM build, like 8K+ redline.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The HKS kit has longer durations on top of more lift and is designed around their stroker kit. So if your point is there is not much room for more lift at equal duration, that is not a great example. I personally couldn't tell you without measuring it out myself but I don't believe other cams on the market such as the piper have an interference issue. The fast road has nearly the same lift and duration as the HKS.

You can ask Element yourself on the feasibility of going big valve on an NA build. That was what 86IT was told when he asked them. They said the cost benefit is just not there for what you are gaining, not that there wasn't a gain. I personally don't see the benefit of porting the FA heads aside from just cleaning up the casting marks and radius a few edges. There may be some gains from raising the floor as we mentioned above and blending the throat into the bowl more smoothly, but that is way beyond my skill set. If someone else like the OP wants to play, have at it.

Element told him its not worth it with the stock 12.5:1 comp. With the higher compression they offer it is worth it. They claim to make better numbers than the TODA 2.3L stroker on 93oct.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Element told him its not worth it with the stock 12.5:1 comp. With the higher compression they offer it is worth it. They claim to make better numbers than the TODA 2.3L stroker on 93oct.

That must have been where he drew the line. It would be nice if they posted more numbers on their NA builds.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That must have been where he drew the line. It would be nice if they posted more numbers on their NA builds.

I think it was. One would be ~$8k in at that point for 200whp which has been done with "only" open ITBs and a M150 standalone or $7.5k...

Thoughts of a FA24D swap are looking better and better. lol



In the mean time via 949 Racing.

"We're pulling the motor out next week for a rebuild by Keegan Engineering in Socal. Nothing fancy but it'll get forged pistons, lighter rods, double valve springs and ports cleaned up. Should make a few more whp than before, we'll see."

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

I think it was. One would be ~$8k in at that point for 200whp which has been done with "only" open ITBs and a M150 standalone or $7.5k...

Thoughts of a FA24D swap are looking better and better. lol



In the mean time via 949 Racing.

"We're pulling the motor out next week for a rebuild by Keegan Engineering in Socal. Nothing fancy but it'll get forged pistons, lighter rods, double valve springs and ports cleaned up. Should make a few more whp than before, we'll see."

Yeah, I am at a crossroads and watching the FA24 swap is the holdup. One way or another in the next year I will either have a K Series, FA24, or a built FA20. I have another blown donor engine sitting on my engine stand while I decide what to do.

[Rabrooks]

The porting is complete. No results to discuss yet. I took a hard look a t larger valves. I found several professioal porters that dont recommend larger valves. Just take the throat to 90 to 92 percent of the vslve size and back cut the intake valve for improved flow. Also opened the bowl to 97 percent of valve size. So thats where i went. The build should be ready for track by late March. Oh yeah im sdding beehive springs tested to 9k rpm. I had Crower springs before and they took the rpm to 8200. Peak power at 7700

[Scargod]

Any update? Has anyone done similar headwork? From what I've heard camshafts are not available for the engine yet. Any word on a supplier (besides Piper)?

[Xero-Limit]

https://www.moto-east.com/main/fa20-...vs-ported-wrx/

BRZ head flows way more than you can use in most applications. No need to port anything IMO.