GM Says They Will Dominate Tesla

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by why?

Tesla creates products with major flaws. Tesla products are absurdly expensive. The second Toyota and GM start rolling out EV's en masse Tesla becomes a niche product. I mean it already is and always will be a niche product with a tiny vocal fan base solely because of the price. Never mind the lengthy history of doing the dumbest things imaginable.



Charging infrastructure isn't important 90% of the time, and almost no households will only have 1 vehicle that is an ev, it is always a 2nd or 3rd car. That's still not going to change until solar panels are able to directly fully charge the batteries, and the foolish countries are going to be forced to change their fantasy pie in the sky legislation.



Tesla will not be able to compete with GM or Toyota when each has 10+ models of ev with dozens on every dealer lot world wide.

I think your assessment of the situation is poor.

[BigHugeFatGuy]

Originally Posted by why?

Apple creates products with major flaws. Apple products are absurdly expensive. The second Samsung starts rolling out smartphones en masse Apple becomes a niche product. I mean it already is and always will be a niche product with a tiny vocal fan base solely because of the price. Never mind the lengthy history of doing the dumbest things imaginable.

Edited, to restate what Irace said....

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Not a viable market...

In the US in 2019, Telsa sold 192k vehicles (3 models). BMW sold 324k vehicles (too many models to count). If you just compare the Model 3 to BMW's 2/3/4/5 series, then they sold more cars than them.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10...y-a-landslide/

Model 3 is the 9th best selling car in the US.
https://interestingengineering.com/t...-car-in-the-us

The Model 3 is the 3rd best selling car in California beating the Corolla and Accord, which is amazing because it is a luxury car and is succeeding against other popular sedans at a time when companies like Ford is eliminating most sedans in favor of SUVs.
https://insideevs.com/news/399907/20...es-california/

I think Lentz got it right. Tesla sales of all models was <1.2% of the total market in 2019 and nationwide Model 3 was down 38% to a little more than half of Corolla sales.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019-u...ures-by-model/

And Tesla volatile financials aren't the most inspiring especially when their biggest market, China, is having so many problems.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investin...sla/financials

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Atmo

I think Lentz got it right. Tesla sales of all models was <1.2% of the total market in 2019 and nationwide Model 3 was down 38% to a little more than half of Corolla sales.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019-u...ures-by-model/

And Tesla volatile financials aren't the most inspiring especially when their biggest market, China, is having so many problems.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investin...sla/financials

Because people are going to buy the Model Y.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Because people are going to buy the Model Y.

I wanted to make a point about the Y being more expensive and as long as they continue with the "luxury model" model their sales has a more limited market, then Tesla sent me on a tangent.

So, went to Tesla's site just to what a Model Y configures out to in price. I couldn't get past the first page because they are still doing the "gas savings" cost crap in their pricing.

Sorry, there is nothing valid about this. Even with ICE you could do this. Take the car with the worst fuel economy, figure out how much your model will "save" you over time because it gets better gas mileage, then include that as a "discount".

Come on Tesla, play it straight.

[Lantanafrs2]

Whenever gm announces new products, tow truck drivers raise a cheer.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Whenever gm announces new products, tow truck drivers raise a cheer.

My multiple GM products that have had 200K+ mostly trouble free miles on them wish to disagree.

[Irace86.2.0]

Tesla reads article, “GM says they will dominate Tesla”...Ok boomer.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I wanted to make a point about the Y being more expensive and as long as they continue with the "luxury model" model their sales has a more limited market, then Tesla sent me on a tangent.

So, went to Tesla's site just to what a Model Y configures out to in price. I couldn't get past the first page because they are still doing the "gas savings" cost crap in their pricing.

Sorry, there is nothing valid about this. Even with ICE you could do this. Take the car with the worst fuel economy, figure out how much your model will "save" you over time because it gets better gas mileage, then include that as a "discount".

Come on Tesla, play it straight.

I never had a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how hard it is to get the base model.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I never had a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how hard it is to get the base model.

Yea, at least you have the option to flip it to "real price" or whatever they call it on the site but it's not the default.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I think your assessment of the situation is poor.

Originally Posted by BigHugeFatGuy

Edited, to restate what Irace said....

You are both wrong. Apple and Samsung phones are the same price. Tesla's products are far higher than the average automobile price, and come with massive defects like having the charging port stick to the car in a way that requires Tesla to send a team out to remove.


When GM and Toyota have many EV's on the lot you can buy now, and Tesla still has a waiting list to get a product that might still have flaws at the delivery, or a new product with any untold number of massive issues like the roof leaking, the door handles not working etc, Tesla will be relegated to being a niche automaker, like Bentley is now. They will still sell cars, but only to their specific fan base. Exactly as it is now.


Btw, Apple sold like crazy before anyone else made a smart phone. Tesla has never sold like crazy. They cannot even make enough of them to sell what are ordered in a reasonable time frame.


You can choose to ignore Telsa's vast quality problems, and Tesla can refuse to acknowledge them, but normal people see the proof and want no part of that crap. They cannot even make a car that an auto journalist orders perfect. How stupid can a company be?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by why?

You are both wrong. Apple and Samsung phones are the same price. Tesla's products are far higher than the average automobile price, and come with massive defects like having the charging port stick to the car in a way that requires Tesla to send a team out to remove.


When GM and Toyota have many EV's on the lot you can buy now, and Tesla still has a waiting list to get a product that might still have flaws at the delivery, or a new product with any untold number of massive issues like the roof leaking, the door handles not working etc, Tesla will be relegated to being a niche automaker, like Bentley is now. They will still sell cars, but only to their specific fan base. Exactly as it is now.


Btw, Apple sold like crazy before anyone else made a smart phone. Tesla has never sold like crazy. They cannot even make enough of them to sell what are ordered in a reasonable time frame.


You can choose to ignore Telsa's vast quality problems, and Tesla can refuse to acknowledge them, but normal people see the proof and want no part of that crap. They cannot even make a car that an auto journalist orders perfect. How stupid can a company be?

I still think your assessment of the situation is poor.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by why?

...and Tesla still has a waiting list to get a product that might still have flaws at the delivery, or a new product with any untold number of massive issues like the roof leaking, the door handles not working etc, Tesla will be relegated to being a niche automaker, like Bentley is now. They will still sell cars, but only to their specific fan base. Exactly as it is now.

have you seen this?
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-d...ere-1842698386

they're saying that tesla appears to be adapting with every new model pretty well.

tesla's main problem has always been that they insist on starting from the ground and ignoring that anyone else has attempted to tackle similar problems. as a result, they hit the same snags everyone else hit, but they're doing so in a more modern era, where such mistakes are more obvious, and less acceptable.

i believe that gm will eventually outsell tesla, but not in the same market space. it is and has been interesting to watch tesla attempt to move downmarket with their product selection, while every business plan in the world involves moving products upmarket.

the people that want a tesla are not really the same as the people that want a gm. same with toyota.

it's like an article proclaiming "pizza to outsell kobe steak" the headline isn't wrong, it just pays no attention to the metrics or reality of how and why more people will buy pizza than kobe steak.

[daniloneil8]

Originally Posted by soundman98

this is why i find chevy now committing to ev's so funny.

https://jalopnik.com/gm-debuts-new-e...ago-1842094994

they had every chance to be tesla, and they gave it all away

LOLZ, Chevy Bolt has been around longer than Model 3
Since 2017.