2013s less responsive than 2017s?

[370zBRZ]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

A tune is always necessary to gain HP form adding parts.

Would an exhaust + header + tune make it "feel" as or more responsive than the newer models?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 370zBRZ

Would an exhaust + header + tune make it "feel" as or more responsive than the newer models?

Oh yeah, more so.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by dhuang

I'm happy with the 4.3, mainly because it's a fairly conservative gain in mechanical torque, and I don't have to throw more monies at the car.

I think the 4.3 is a good happy medium. If I was starting with the 4.1 and was going to spend the money to upgrade then I would go for the 4.56


I don't see the need to go from 4.3 to 4.56 unless the labor was easy and I could figure out myself on the cheap

[Lantanafrs2]

On any stock 86 "responsive" is subjective.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by 370zBRZ

Would an exhaust + header + tune make it "feel" as or more responsive than the newer models?

I can't offer any comparison, because I have not driven a newer version. Though judging form many threads on this forum: header + OFT+ e85 is a great way to build some decent power without going FI.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by dhuang

I feel my '17 BRZ is faster than my '13 OFT Stage 2 FR-S.

But it could all be in my head... then again, my FR-S put down 175WHP on the dyno...

I believe stock '13-16 is closer to 160WHP. Stock '17+ gets about 180WHP, and don't forget the more aggressive gearing -- I noticed that the most when I switched.

Some of the output increase happened on the '14+ models with the engine valve revision and the rest happened after the revision. Anyway, Toyota/Subaru wanted for some reason to register a 5 hp increase. So, let's stay on the catalog specs.

[RToyo86]

Having poked around in the forums I would guess that the 2017s got a more aggressive tune out of the box.
There is a thread which I will post below which shows a factory 2017 car making near identical numbers as a QFT stage 1 tune.

When you start to add the same aftermarket parts and tune accordingly the differences between the year ranges narrows to where it's near indistinguishable.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121315


If you plan to drive the car stock forever I suppose the 2017 car has a slight edge, along with the snappier gearing. Beyond that there isn't much of a difference.

[Ernest72]

most reviews I read by people who do not own either but have driven both said there was not much difference. I would bet its more butt dyno than real performance gains.

get yourself a tune stge1 or headers and stg2 and you will be better off anyway. only reason to get a 17 is PP and if you want to go FI. The changes they made will not amount to anything for DD.

[Spuds]

I may have missed it, but I'm a bit surprised the word "bushings" has not been mentioned yet.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

People generally are trying to convince themselves as much as they are everyone else that their setup, car, or whatever is the ONE.

Originally Posted by Trust86

Your buddy is justifying his purchase, making him feel 1000% better.

In case anybody's wondering, this has a name: confirmation bias. If you want something to be true, it's likely you'll perceive it as true, especially when the evaluation criteria are completely subjective. As in, you install Special Part #7 because you're hoping for better throttle response, so you'll perceive better throttle response even if the improvement isn't really there. Because who can prove you wrong?

Confirmation bias may sell more cold air intakes than any other factor. "I haven't put it on a dyno, but that cold air intake definitely improved throttle response! (Even though I can't ever prove that because it's all just a feeling.)"

Especially with the change in gearing, I suspect the feel of the newer 86s is two parts reality and one part confirmation bias.

Originally Posted by 370zBRZ

Would an exhaust + header + tune make it "feel" as or more responsive than the newer models?

Just changing the sound of a car can make it seem faster. I know in my head that my Corsa exhaust doesn't add any power (or throttle response, a confirmation bias favorite), but it sure did add a lot of life to the driving experience and make the car seem a lot faster. The same thing happened when I put a cowl intake on my Jeep and suddenly had raw intake noise being piped right into the cabin. You feel invincible in that thing until a minivan blows your doors off.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

In case anybody's wondering, this has a name: confirmation bias. If you want something to be true, it's likely you'll perceive it as true, especially when the evaluation criteria are completely subjective. As in, you install Special Part #7 because you're hoping for better throttle response, so you'll perceive better throttle response even if the improvement isn't really there. Because who can prove you wrong?

Confirmation bias may sell more cold air intakes than any other factor. "I haven't put it on a dyno, but that cold air intake definitely improved throttle response! (Even though I can't ever prove that because it's all just a feeling.)"

Especially with the change in gearing, I suspect the feel of the newer 86s is two parts reality and one part confirmation bias.

I remember Mr. Tada said once that in our cars (before the revision) the best hp gains value for money was to install a better air filter. For some reason the standard filter is quite restrictive (emissions, noise or whatever else). Does this mean that you'll get an entirely different car? No! The change is so small that you might notice it or not notice it at all. Even if you notice it, your body and senses will adapt to it and next time the change won't be there. So, sometimes it is confirmation bias and other times it is just a very small gain.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Trust86

Your buddy is justifying his purchase, making him feel 1000% better.
With the money you saved buying used vs a 2017, slap some decent coil overs on your car, decent tires with a good alignment, header and a tune and then tell him your car is more responsive in every way.

Originally Posted by 370zBRZ

My buddy test drove my '13 BRZ and said his new '17 86 was more responsive in every way.

Is this normal or is it an issue that early year models have? I just got the used BRZ and I've never driven the newer ones.

Actually with the money you saved you can do that and get 4.56 or higher final drive and you'll get that "responsiveness" and then some