Adequate/Inadequate power for DD on stock BRZ?

[GrantedTaken]

Stop looking at 0-60 times. Those people have no clue what this car is about.
They do not understand why BRZ is one of the fastest cars produced in the last 30 years.

There is no escaping physics in terms of how fast this car can corner.
Momentum = mass • velocity

In the curves, the BRZ is one of the fastest cars out there.

Few modern production cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ that weighs 2700 lbs.
Bigger cars will fly into a ditch trying to keep up with a BRZ in the corners.

The BRZ is very very fast, if you know how to drive a momentum car.
The only performance upgrade you need are summer tires.

People who can't pass in this car don't know how to drive a stick.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

A lot of people who whine about the "lack of power" in this car don't know how to drive it.
You have to learn to downshift into "shit's gettin' serious" mode when you need power rather than just stomping the gas and waiting for it to catch up. .

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Stop looking at 0-60 times. Those people have no clue what this car is about.
They do not understand why BRZ is one of the fastest cars produced in the last 30 years.

There is no escaping physics in terms of how fast this car can corner.
Momentum = mass • velocity

In the curves, the BRZ is one of the fastest cars out there.

Few modern production cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ that weighs 2700 lbs.
Bigger cars will fly into a ditch trying to keep up with a BRZ in the corners.

The BRZ is very very fast, if you know how to drive a momentum car.
The only performance upgrade you need are summer tires.

People who can't pass in this car don't know how to drive a stick.

What did I just read?

This car is a great car. It handles well. It is by no means a top performer or "one of the fastest cars produced in the last 30 years."

Let's not make this thing out to be what it isn't.

Also, every car is a momentum car. If you don't think like that you're being lazy.

[HKz]

OP if you have to ask about power when we all know that horse has been brought back from the dead half a million times only to be beat to death again & again, then you're probably going to be disappointed...the twins has plenty of power for what it is, but it ain't going to feel like your Accord's V6...enough "passing power" is all relative..

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

What did I just read?

It is by no means a top performer or "one of the fastest cars produced in the last 30 years."

In the curves, it sure is. See formula.
While faster and heavier cars are braking, BRZ can still be on the gas.
Not many cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

What did I just read?

This car is a great car. It handles well. It is by no means a top performer or "one of the fastest cars produced in the last 30 years."

Let's not make this thing out to be what it isn't.

Also, every car is a momentum car. If you don't think like that you're being lazy.

Agreed!
When I said it is "faster than many" I was referring to the bulk of the vehicles on the road that are merely appliances. There are probably thousands of cars on a highway at any given time that are slower but there are also hundreds that are faster. I would firmly place these at the very, very bottom of the "fast" car list. To say it is one of the fastest is way off base.

As far as the cornering ability goes when talking daily driver I will use the same statement I use when people say it needs at least 300 HP to be any good. Were the hell do you guys do your daily driving? While doing my own daily driving I have never been in a position where I needed more power any more than I was able to take a corner at much more than 6/10s of the car's ability. The OP was asking about DD and the fact that the Twins can take a turn on a track better than many cars (not all by any stretch) really doesn't play into the equation. Even looking at track abilities the latest gen Camaro and Mustang can make those same turns just as well and then smoke the Twins in the straights. I know I will get flamed to death for that but it is reality.

When looking at these purely as a DD the "lack" of power is overplayed but so is the handling only in the other direction. They are an inexpensive sports coupe that are more than capable of performing well above the average car when street driven as a DD but that does not put them in super car territory all of a sudden.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

In the curves, it sure is. See formula.
While faster and heavier cars are braking, BRZ can still be on the gas.
Not many cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ.

A ton of cars can take turns as fast or faster. You're not taking in to account a lot of variables with your "formula."

[COBlue]

@kb3dow I think you're probably noticing a trend here and I agree - my Honda Pilot could probably beat it light to light, but that's not what I was looking for. As far as your concern passing traffic, no problem at all, just drop it down a gear or two - but you will actually have to drive it (which I enjoy), just stomping on the gas at 60mph in 6th won't do much.

What I haven't seen in the thread was the other piece for me - practicality. First thing I did at the dealer was climb in back - I'm 6' and I fit, wouldn't ride back there for long, but it works. My kids love riding in back, I take it to Sam's Club, I can put my bike or snowboard in back. All of those were important to me using it as a DD in addition to the fun factor.

[Twinz]

If you don't mind downshifting, the power is fine.

[jtice]

I have a 2017 Liminted PP, I would NOT call this car under powered.

The manual 17s have a lower ratio rear end, which helps add some torque to the car.
Its much better than the auto I drove, which does not have the changed rear end.

As others have said, its NOT a straight line drag race car. Not that it wont get up and go, but its just not about that.
On the highway its fine. Even here in WV where the highway has huge hills, I can maintain 70+mph easily staying in 6th.
Getting on a steep uphill onramp, meh, sure, could use a bit more power to be even more fun.

BUT.... where this car shines, and was built for, the TWISTIES.
It is an absolute dream. And never feels under powered at all. Keep it in the upper rpms when driving spirited, and it will whip your through the turns at a very fun rate.

If you want, throw you in the seat, burnout power all the time, this is not the car for you.
If you want to HANG turns, feel one with the car, and experience great handling and balance, this is the car for you.

[bcj]

Adequate.
I grew up with 50s-60s sport cars rather than the jacked up rear + cherry bomb groups.

The twins have been the only new model that have even remotely interested me for the past 20 years.
Mostly due to OTD prices vs. handling and powertrain. The twins are still rocking price point.
Got mine in '13 and it's still stock. Wasn't looking to get a power monster in any case.
Still fun to drive.

[lantsalot]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

In the curves, it sure is. See formula.
While faster and heavier cars are braking, BRZ can still be on the gas.
Not many cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ.

If you're really wanting to analyze the formula, this car is probably less of a "momentum" car than many others. As stated, momentum is mass*velocity. This car has less mass than many of the other cars out there, and would only be able to have high momentum by compensating for that lower mass by having a higher velocity (and relative to other cars, there's nothing particularly special about how fast it goes).

What this car offers is better control and handling that allows a higher velocity trough turns. Since the momentum vector will always be pointing in the direction of the car's velocity, having a super high going into momentum in turns is actually probably less desirable (which is why you brake when going into a turn). In general, momentum is going to be fighting against a car turning, since the velocity (and therefore momentum) vector will be point out of the turn and into disaster for most of the turn until the car comes out of the turn. So it would seem the car is better at sticking to the ground and fighting the momentum to give the driver the ability to get through the turn quicker.

[EAGLE5]

Journalists are stupid as fuck. Believe me, I was one. They read each others' work then repeat the same shit in their own articles. Somehow less power is just perfect in the Miata. Morons.

I could easily slap a turbo on the FRS, but honestly, why? I mean, lower reliability for not much more speed. It seems pointless. It's not going to be a rocket ship unless I put a big turbo on there, and it's not going to be reliable after that no matter what, even if I build the engine. Meanwhile, if I want to go over 100 mph, I just gotta wait a little bit longer than I did with my V8. So what?

Someday I might get a real straight line vehicle. It will probably have an electric motor. This whole underpowered idea for the FR-S is just stupid. 200HP and 2800 lbs? Older Ferraris had less than that.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Journalists are stupid as fuck. Believe me, I was one. They read each others' work then repeat the same shit in their own articles. Somehow less power is just perfect in the Miata. Morons.

I could easily slap a turbo on the FRS, but honestly, why? I mean, lower reliability for not much more speed. It seems pointless. It's not going to be a rocket ship unless I put a big turbo on there, and it's not going to be reliable after that no matter what, even if I build the engine. Meanwhile, if I want to go over 100 mph, I just gotta wait a little bit longer than I did with my V8. So what?

Someday I might get a real straight line vehicle. It will probably have an electric motor. This whole underpowered idea for the FR-S is just stupid. 200HP and 2800 lbs? Older Ferraris had less than that.

You're right on the money. The journalists started this underpowered circlejerk. I'm ticked off that the Miata always gets a pass on that, and our cars get ridiculed for it.

The 240sx is revered as a chassis now. It's impossible to find one anymore, and they were far less powerful than our cars.


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