OFT v2.076|Wayne Rom v130|OFT v4.01 Dynos

[BFIFE22]

This is awesome to see! Glad to see that the V4 is an improvement on V2. I was curious with the combining of the EL and UEL tunes into one if it would have a negative effect

[H1C]

Originally Posted by ermax

I'm still learning myself but if I had to guess it probably saps about 321whp. Hahaha. Yeah, I have no clue. It's interesting how incredibly close your Wayne pull and OFT4 pull were. Not just in peak numbers but the entire plot.

... So on a dyno if the car was hot and you did a few runs it may have made its way back up. But it's probably better practice to set IAM init to 1.0 for dyno runs.

Maybe one of the experts can chime in on how the initial IAM would have affected a dyno pull.

Yeah it is interesting how similar they are especially given how different they sound. My street butt-dyno winner was Wayne v130 fwiw. It has crisper throttle response (less or no dead travel in throttle pedal) right off of a fresh flash, and its gnarlier tone adds to the sensation of speed.

The car was fully warm when I got to the dyno and didn't cool down much between tune flashes. Each tune also pulled remarkably consistently across each of their runs, so it didn't seem like there was any compensation or learning going on between runs.

[tomm.brz]

I'm no "one of the experts" but the IAM at 1 simply adds 100% of the values in the Knock Correction A table (Ignition Advance in Ecutek) to the Ignition base map B
at 0.7, like the stock on the OFT v4 then adds only 70%


Of course for a dyno pull you should force it to 1 like on the v2 and wayne roms to compare them, since the latter two run at maximul potential power since the first starting after the flash, the v4 is not maxed out if you leave IAM 0.7

[Teseo]

I thought 0.7 IAM is where fuel oct is not paired with the tune (tune more aggresive for fuel oct and hold a back before knock) and 1.0 IAM is "come at me bro, floor it"

[tomm.brz]

if the tuner puts 0.7 as default value, it just means the tune is good for both lower and higher octane fuel..it s a warranty to get the least amount of knocking in the long time, in the case the user will use also lower octane fuel.
the downside is, if you use high octane fuel, at every start it goes back to 0.7 and one must wait long way to drive to get back at 1

of course if one will ALWAYS use the best higher octane fuel, this thing is just annoying and counterproductive (car would be less efficient and slower with IAM at 0.7)


the best comparing in my opinion would be: v2/wayne stage2 93oct VS v4 with IAM changed and forced to 1

and use 93oct fuel of course

[nikitopo]

It is a way of cheating. It gives you the freedom to provide a more aggressive timing that will work only with the best quality fuel and under some very ideal conditions. Then you post some high dyno results that most customers will never get and you name it a success.

If there is any real point in this new v4 tune , would be to present the new features. I haven't seen yet any video on the flat foot shifting etc. Just dyno comparisons from "friends" of the tuner.

[ermax]

So on my drive home today (all stop and go) it took mine 31mins for go from 0.9 to a full 1.0. So the time it takes to creep up varies wildly. This morning with less traffic it only took 4 mins. If I still had my IAM init set to 0.7 I'd probably do my entire commute home without seeing full advance. I just had a bad batch of gas causing it to drop to .35 so I figured it wouldn't be a horrible idea not to set the init to 1.0. I will have to keep an eye on it for a while. In the past I had it set to 1 and never saw it drop. Even if it is set to 1, if you have a bad batch it will drop rapidly and then start off at that lower value. So I think setting init to 1.0 is fairly safe. Especially if you always use 93.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is a way of cheating. It gives you the freedom to provide a more aggressive timing that will work only with the best quality fuel and under some very ideal conditions. Then you post some high dyno results that most customers will never get and you name it a success.

I disagree that it's "cheating" in any kind of unethical context. If you have access to good gas and/or have a 80th or greater percentile engine, why shouldn't you be able to maximize your power output? It's a more efficient way to distribute the best tune to the most people. That's exactly what OEM tunes do. It needs to be solidly reliable on 99% of engines made, but there is a noticable difference between the 90th percentile engine and the 10th percentile engine in terms of timing and power.

Starting at .7 just does that in a more safe manner than starting at 1.

[tomm.brz]

It is totally NOT a way of cheating... the timing map (base timing B + knock correction A) are actually very similar between v2 and v4
so actually if one run the v2 Stage2 93oct and his car doesn t knock, it seems to me that if he runs the v4 on the same car with the same fuel, eventually his IAM will raise to 1.0

because:
ign timings on the v2 Stage2 93oct -> very similar to -> ign timings on the v4 Stage2+ with IAM 1.0


ign timings on the v2 stage2 91oct -> very similar to -> ign timings on the v4 Stage2+ with IAM 0.7


it's just a way to have one single map for everything
i dont actually care of it because i have Ecutek and i can select 4 different maps on the fly keeping the IAM fixed at 1, but i guess the stock v4 is oriented to someone who puts lower octane fuel more frequently
for someone who runs more frequently higher octane fuel,and occasionally the shittier fuel, may be better have the IAM at 0.8-0.9
if only super good fuel is used, i would put directly 0.9-1.0

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

That's exactly what OEM tunes do. It needs to be solidly reliable on 99% of engines made, but there is a noticable difference between the 90th percentile engine and the 10th percentile engine in terms of timing and power.

Yes of course, it is done by the OEM tunes too. Who said they are not cheating? They certify an engine thats had plenty of time on the test bed to be fully run in, on the thinnest hottest oil they dare, with the coolant as cold as they dare and the best available fuel, with the oil level as low as they dare. So, they promise an engine output that most customers will never get. At least not without the best fuel quality on earth and all these special conditions.

Anyway, my point was that you cannot constantly revise a tune after so many years. It doesn't make any sense if your car is essentially the same (no new hardware) and even promise new gains. So, I am waiting for the new features ...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

It is totally NOT a way of cheating... the timing map (base timing B + knock correction A) are actually very similar between v2 and v4
so actually if one run the v2 Stage2 93oct and his car doesn t knock, it seems to me that if he runs the v4 on the same car with the same fuel, eventually his IAM will raise to 1.0

because:
ign timings on the v2 Stage2 93oct -> very similar to -> ign timings on the v4 Stage2+ with IAM 1.0


ign timings on the v2 stage2 91oct -> very similar to -> ign timings on the v4 Stage2+ with IAM 0.7


it's just a way to have one single map for everything
i dont actually care of it because i have Ecutek and i can select 4 different maps on the fly keeping the IAM fixed at 1, but i guess the stock v4 is oriented to someone who puts lower octane fuel more frequently
for someone who runs more frequently higher octane fuel,and occasionally the shittier fuel, may be better have the IAM at 0.8-0.9
if only super good fuel is used, i would put directly 0.9-1.0

OK, so it depends how often the IAM can rise to 1.0 with an ordinary 93oct fuel. If it can rise to 1.0 easily (there are no knock events) and stay constantly there, then I agree it is not cheating. Question is if it behaves like this, because it was noted that the timing is more aggressive. If the timing with IAM 1.0 is very similar to stage v2 93oct it doesn't say anything, unless it is exactly the same.

I also have Ecutek so I don't care. I can switch between maps. It is just that we should educate a bit the new members here...

[Vin]

Very nice results, thanks for sharing. Did you log the tunes also? How does the AFR compare @ 6800 rpm? Could you share logs?

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

OK, so it depends how often the IAM can rise to 1.0 with an ordinary 93oct fuel. If it can rise to 1.0 easily (there are no knock events) and stay constantly there, then I agree it is not cheating. Question is if it behaves like this, because it was noted that the timing is more aggressive. If the timing with IAM 1.0 is very similar to stage v2 93oct it doesn't say anything, unless it is exactly the same.

I also have Ecutek so I don't care. I can switch between maps. It is just that we should educate a bit the new members here...

Even if it can not rise easily to 1.0, if IAM is forced to 1 and actually the timings are too tight for the fuel used, at the first hard pull the IAM would drop by itself because of knocking... and kinda self-levelling to the performance of the v2 rom
the fact is v2 and v4 have totally different VVT settings, so the timings are not gonna be EXACTLY the same because VVT affects when the knock occurs
actually, I looked a bit quicky, but it seems to me the v2 has tighter timings than v4... still v4 pulls harder than v2

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Even if it can not rise easily to 1.0, if IAM is forced to 1 and actually the timings are too tight for the fuel used, at the first hard pull the IAM would drop by itself because of knocking... and kinda self-levelling to the performance of the v2 rom

No, this is not right and it should be fixed by the tuner. The customer should do a logging and if knock is detected, it should be fixed without any extra cost. Buying a canned tune doesn't mean that we should have bs in our cars. Otherwise, the tuner should have left a bigger safety interval in order the tune to work correctly even with the non-best fuel quality.

I have a canned tune too and my tuner was willing to check for free the logs, because I had some non-standard hardware. He wasn't obliged to this, but with such attitude you'll get the good reputation and respect from your customers or not.