Subaru engines' weights

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The EJs are both SOHC

I assure you, they aren't.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The fact that Subaru had separate engines for the smaller displacements that were much lighter than the bigger displacement EJ series was what I was pointing out though.

You misunderstand. The EJ replaced the EA, much as the FB is replacing the EJ. The EA was not a small displacement alternative to the EJ, it was an outdated relic from a time when subaru made cars like the "1000".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_1000

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Even if you add 20lbs to it for heads and then add whatever the thicker sidewalls would add and reinforcing the block, an aluminum 1.6L shouldn't weigh 200lbs+. Remember also it's going to be specially built by Subaru/Cosworth for their reintroduction into rallying. I doubt they'll use a heavier engine and just debore/destroke it. Plus do you know what an EJ15/16 weighs?

It's not a question of what it should weigh. It comes down to what Subaru can afford to develop and what kind of return on investment they're likely to see. It's all well and good to say that Subaru should make a 150lb 1.6L, I'm sure they could if they tried. But they would never sell enough cars equipped with them to justify the expense, especially since they've just spent a ton of money developing the FB. It's not going to happen.

And Subaru isn't returning to WRC. The rules specify an inline 4, and until that changes or Subaru starts selling a homologation special with a transverse inline four, any rumors you hear are just that.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by old greg

I assure you, they aren't.



You misunderstand. The EJ replaced the EA, much as the FB is replacing the EJ. The EA was not a small displacement alternative to the EJ, it was an outdated relic from a time when subaru made cars like the "1000".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_1000




It's not a question of what it should weigh. It comes down to what Subaru can afford to develop and what kind of return on investment they're likely to see. It's all well and good to say that Subaru should make a 150lb 1.6L, I'm sure they could if they tried. But they would never sell enough cars equipped with them to justify the expense, especially since they've just spent a ton of money developing the FB. It's not going to happen.

And Subaru isn't returning to WRC. The rules specify an inline 4, and until that changes or Subaru starts selling a homologation special with a transverse inline four, any rumors you hear are just that.

Are you absolutely certain of this? I know that the inline four layout is specifically specified in F1, and Ferrari is crying, but this is all I found on the WRC cars:

http://www.wrc.com/about-wrc/the-cars/

The machines are still based on four-cylinder turbocharged production models but the two-litre engines of old have been replaced by a 1.6-litre unit.

And this is interesting, coloured emphasis is mine:

The FIA requires all WRC engines to have a 34mm restrictor in the air intake, which holds down power output to around 300bhp. The cylinder block and head(s) must be based on those in the standard road car, but the crankshaft, con-rods, pistons, cylinder linings, valves and camshafts can be modified. Typical turbo boost is 4-5 bar - compared with up to 1 bar for an average road car - while anti-lag systems mean the turbocharger delivers maximum boost from tick-over. The result is massive torque - typically more than 600Nm - about the same as a Ferrari Enzo.

The implications of the: (s) is pretty significant when we're talking about boxer 4's...

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Dimman

The implications of the: (s) is pretty significant when we're talking about boxer 4's...

Perhaps my memory is a bit faulty when it comes to the reason Subaru pulled out of WRC. I do know that using the flat four would not have been an option though. After a bit of digging, I believe problem is that S2000 rules require that cars run one of two approved gearboxes (made by Sadev and Xtrac), both of which are for transversely mounted engines. A flat Four just wouldn't fit, so they'd need to produce a new car with an engine that would fit (pretty much needs to be an I4) in order to return to WRC.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public...%29-080311.pdf

5.2 Transmission
a) Gearbox
Only the ratios, the housings and final drives homologated in the
Super 2000 Rally extension may be used (without any
modification).

The two transmissions: the Xtrac 532 and the Sadev ST90-16 4RM

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by old greg

I assure you, they aren't.



You misunderstand. The EJ replaced the EA, much as the FB is replacing the EJ. The EA was not a small displacement alternative to the EJ, it was an outdated relic from a time when subaru made cars like the "1000".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_1000




It's not a question of what it should weigh. It comes down to what Subaru can afford to develop and what kind of return on investment they're likely to see. It's all well and good to say that Subaru should make a 150lb 1.6L, I'm sure they could if they tried. But they would never sell enough cars equipped with them to justify the expense, especially since they've just spent a ton of money developing the FB. It's not going to happen.

And Subaru isn't returning to WRC. The rules specify an inline 4, and until that changes or Subaru starts selling a homologation special with a transverse inline four, any rumors you hear are just that.

Sorry but I don't agree with your reasoning. They already have a smaller displacement version of the EJ/EL series that they are already selling, the only thing in question is how much does it weigh compared to the larger displacements versions.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Sorry but I don't agree with your reasoning. They already have a smaller displacement version of the EJ/EL series that they are already selling, the only thing in question is how much does it weigh compared to the larger displacements versions.

Very nearly the same as the rest. I don't have proof, and you don't have to believe me, but all EJ shortblocks weigh approximately the same amount. If I haven't convinced you of that by now there's nothing else I can do to change your mind.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by old greg

Very nearly the same as the rest. I don't have proof, and you don't have to believe me, but all EJ shortblocks weigh approximately the same amount. If I haven't convinced you of that by now there's nothing else I can do to change your mind.

No. I believe you. I just don't like your reasoning .

Thanks for being understanding Old Greg .