Suspension In Which Order?

[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by FNCrazy

That makes sense. Other than cost, what's made me shy away from coilovers, is the adjustments. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, even if I could figure out how to adjust them.

If I did get them, would that help the turn in and flatter cornering, maybe a touch less understeer?

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That is why I always say decide what you want to do first.
Getting a bunch of different parts, bolting them up to the car, and having the end result which is more expensive with poorer performance doesn't make economic sense.

Ride height is simple, you set it to how you want it to look.
Having camber adjustable top mount is a plus.
The most important part is the adjustable damper, because that is the part that is going to make or break a good suspension vs. a bad one.

There are lots of technical details, and sometime most enthusiast don't understand all of them; which is to be expected.
The easiest way to understand damping adjustments is that it allow YOU (the driver) to decide how you want the car to behave.

If you like the car to ride a bit softer and more compliant (like me), also a bit more predictable; you will have damping on fairly soft setting.
If you like the car to control body roll better and respond quicker to steering input, then you will have the damping on stiffer adjustments.
The damping adjustments allows you to set the ride quality, it also allows you to set the "bias" between front and rear.

So if you want the rear to "kick out" more, simply stiffen the rear and it will help do that.
Vice versa you can soften the rear if you want the rear to grip better.
There really isn't a "correct" setting for damping within reasonable range; and you adjust the damper as the driver base on what you feel and what you want.

You can see how having the damping adjustments allow you the driver to pick what "YOU" want, and that is the main focus.
Because everyone is different, so you are pretty stuck without the adjustment if the suspension just don't behave the way you like it.
This control over the suspension is the main reason for performance coilovers.

Of course if you have questions, we are always here to help.

Jerrick

[LOLS2K]

Didn't read but

tires.

[FNCrazy]

Jerrick,

That made a lot of sense, thank you! How easy is it to adjust coilovers and their damper settings? Lift? Wheels off? Also, do coilovers come with that camber thing you were talking about?

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[churchx]

1) First i'd drive it stock for some time. For half a year-year. Or until stock primacies are worn
2) then i'd probably would get camber bolts for front, SPC LCAs for rear & do alignment with slight negative camber.
3) from here i'd consider my experience & impressions so far of car/usage patterns/future plans and depending on all those would get tein flex z or rce tarmac 0 or 2/tein src depending on budget and ratio of daily driving vs track use.

(2-3) probably may have other mods in between, eg. lighter wheels & performance tires, OFT, brake improvements, oil rad & catchcan, drop-in airfilter, comfort mods and so on

4) sways/strutbars and alike only after (3.). And not sure if i would really need them that much. Relatively cheap items, but if one puts them without clue, handling/balance may be worsened aswell. Probably only if those would advised by some reputable suspension tuning shop after sharing experience/expectations of car driven for long enough to familiarise with it enough.

I probably would skip just springs. Yes, they are cheap .. but it's lost investment if you later on will go for coilovers, so imho worth getting only if you are sure, you will stop at them. Flex Zs are cheap enough after all.

[Racecomp Engineering]

There are good springs and crappy springs. Good coilovers and crappy coilovers.

Height adjustable coilovers aren't magic, but they do have some advantages. Do not assume that all coilovers are better than a good shock and spring combo.

Suspension should be matched to the driver, application (track, autox, street, cruiser, or some compromise), and the tire choice. Each of these is very important to the overall set up.

For a good FUN street car that's not looking to break records, you don't necessarily need coilovers. You could go that route, but you don't have to.

A good alignment will be crucial.

- Andrew

[FNCrazy]

Originally Posted by LOLS2K

Didn't read but

tires.

Lol. Yes, tires! #1 thing, I know. But I don't want to replace them when they're still 75%. I plan on going with pilots after I wear these out

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[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by FNCrazy

Jerrick,

That made a lot of sense, thank you! How easy is it to adjust coilovers and their damper settings? Lift? Wheels off? Also, do coilovers come with that camber thing you were talking about?

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Coilovers damper setting is a knob on the top.
Literally open the hood, turn the knob, done.
The rear might be a little more tricky with trim piece in place, but nothing too difficult.
I would say you can adjust all the damping around the car easily within 3 minutes.
Camber adjustment in front are common, but not on all application.

As other say, the driver, the application, the tires all matter.
Adjustable coilovers allow you to go between some compromise, so you can have a good road car as well as a capable track car using the damping adjustments.
There are physical limitation (such as springs rate), but those are going to be far beyond what you are looking for at this point.

If you are going to be using the car mostly as a fast road car, then that is what you want to focus for.
That mean the suspension will be design to work with road compound tires.
From what you are telling us that is the "area" you are working in, the recommendation will change if you decide to do competitive Auto-X with sticky semi-slicks.

Jerrick

[slyphen]

if you only want to lower the car a bit, go with lowering springs, keep it square. to promote slight oversteer, go with a larger (preferably adjustable) rear swaybar.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by FNCrazy

Cjd,

I'm working on sorting out what you mean, but I don't think I'm going to be able to work out the last paragraph. I just don't have that kind of brain power. Can someone explain that like they're talking to an 11 year old?

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I can try again.

No matter what, you can benefit from crash bolts up front to maximize camber. Start there - they're affordable, and will work with just about any other changes you make.

IF you're not limited by a set of rules, to get the most out of your alignment and give the alignment guy the best/easiest time, you'll want to add:

1. Rear adjustable lower control arms
2. Front Camber plates (or caster/camber plates like RCE's) - note these aren't universal, so if you think you may go aftermarket dampers, do a little research first - and perhaps hold off on this.

Front camber will improve traction, which may even loosen the car up enough for you. I've been dialing oversteer out and I'm on a stock swaybar in the back... (granted, none of the rest is stock)

C

[FNCrazy]

C, that does make more sense. So the adjustable lca's and camber plates are to help an alignment guy adjust the car? Not me usually?

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[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by FNCrazy

C, that does make more sense. So the adjustable lca's and camber plates are to help an alignment guy adjust the car? Not me usually?

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If you're asking then yes, they're for the alignment guy.

But there's no reason you can't learn to do it yourself provided you have the tools, space to work, and the patience. I've been aligning my own car for the last 6 months, I've probably put around 20 hours into it so far with still more to do and perfect. All you really need is a camber gauge and some jackstands and string to measure the alignment, fancy machines help but aren't the be all end all and there's budget tools to make things easier.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdStfXl1h4Q"]FR-S and BRZ Performance Alignment Suggestions - YouTube[/ame]


It's not like you need to get the car re-aligned every time you drive it hard, it should be good for well over a year barring any incidents, a few hundred bucks every ~2-3 years is cheap for the performance benefits it can yield. Most people would rather spend $300 on a quality professional alignment (about what my local high-end shop charged iirc) than spend 8+ hours under the car learning how to do it and risking a mistake causing problems.

Personally, if I had ~$1k to spend on an 86 it'd be spent entirely on tires (once the OE tires were finished, I kept mine to 30k miles), brake pads and fluid for the track, and alignment. But that's just my priorities. Good luck.

[Ashikabi]

I didn't read this whole thread but if you just want it lower get springs cuz they are cheaper. If you want better handling then spend the money on coils because if you get springs then shocks, then camber plates... you're not saving much and coils get you adjustability. They will have a little knob (be very gentle or you'll break it. Trust me) that adjusts damping. Mine in the front can be reached laying on the ground and the rear are in the trunk under the carpet. Google how damping/suspension mods affect handling(I actually found a great chart once that was super easy to understand) and just play with the settings. If you "mess them up" just turn them all the way to one side and start over. Sway bars are kinda meh, I have front and rear but I think the rear may be too stiff so I recommend waiting a while for sway bars and then probably only upgrade the front. But as everyone has already said, tires are #1 handling mod. Then spring/shock or coilovers, then sway bar

[renfield90]

Strongly recommend upgrading your shocks if you get lowering springs. I was not pleased with the stock shocks and the TRD springs, I felt the car was a bit underdamped. You can still get away with it (I took 2nd place in a ProSolo like that) but I'd be concerned about the shocks wearing out prematurely in the long run.

The TRD springs or the RCE yellows are both a good choice. Neither lowers the car enough to need rear camber correction. Get your front and rear toe settings aligned after the springs have settled and you're good to go.

Next mod after that, I'd recommend a front sway bar. Then maybe shocks (Bilstein B8 would be the easy button for a car with lowering springs). Then maybe a rear sway bar if you think the front sway bar made the car too pushy.

[LenA]

I'm in roughly same boat as op. I DD car in Los Angeles so want to keep stock ride height and comfort. I'm thinking I'll go with Koni yellows on stock springs and camber bolts to get -1.5 deg front camber and replace primacys with PSS in stock size when they wear out. Either go with RPF01's in 17x7 or maybe some rg345's if I can find a decent set and call it a day.

Kinda of a C Street compliant setup

It is too easy to get caught up in mod bug reading this forum. I'm pretty happy with car way it is

Len