Cross Shopping: Used Cayman S or Used Fiat 500

[kodos78]

I had an Abarth as my DD for about two years. Traded it in on the BRZ. I rather enjoyed the little car. It had a TON of character. Its engine note was fantastic. It was comfortable with four people once the four people got into the car. It had decent cargo room when you folded the back seats down. It was packaged very, very, well for what it is - a FWD city car.

I rather enjoyed taking it into the city (Dallas) and darting into tiny parking spots. However, it was not RWD, and it had a lot of body roll. I no longer needed a commuter car, because I am now able to work out of my home. So I got the BRZ.

I had about 45,000 miles when I traded in the Abarth. I never had any major issues with the car - just regular maintenance: regular oil changes and one tire change. It didn't hurt that when I went in for service I got to admire the Alfa Romeo 4Cs that they had in the showroom

The rear axle in the Abarth is not the most sophisticated unit, and you will also feel crazy body roll if you are used to the BRZ. My first aggressive corner (coming from an RX8 in the past), felt like I was going to roll the car! The car has fairly good handling limits, it just will feel disconcerting at first.

If babying it and out of Sport Mode - I got about 40mpg on the highway. The gas mileage is very good on this car. The shifter is awful and was the low point in the driving experience. If I was going to keep the car any longer, I would have gotten a short shift kit, and made it less awful.

If I could have both the BRZ and the Abarth, I probably would. Sometimes I miss the big sliding glass roof (didn't have the convertible). You can get a fantastic deal on Abarths, they are a performance bargain for the money. And you can say that you have now owned an "Italian" car!

No experience with Porsches. One of the guys I used to work for had a Cayman, he rather enjoyed it. Never rode in it, but interestingly enough he admired my Abarth.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Could you talk about your experiences with the Abarth more? I was considering one for a daily! I had a 500 for a week and I liked it alot, but I never drove the abarth.

Easiest clutch I've ever driven, and the ergonomics are awkward as you sit very upright, reaching out for the controls it feels like a park bench compared to the cockpit of an 86. The details are fading after nearly 4 years but the 86 has never made me smile like that.

The engine barks and howls and turbo lag is real but small in the 1.4L, but to me far more forgivable than the fly by wire delay in the 86s throttle. It darted so effortlessly through traffic and just begged begged begged for more. People say that about the 86 as well, but to me the 86 it's much more serious, whenever I go for a risk in the 86 I feel bad for my passengers, in the Abarth I gave absolutely zero shits how uncomfortable I made that salesman and my gf.

I won't argue that it's a perfect car, or even objectively the best car in the segment, it is and will be terribly devisive because it has glaring flaws. But I had a blast driving it that I didn't replicate in the 86 until I was on a closed circuit. I didn't buy it because I didn't want to have to eat the loss selling it 3-5 years later when i got bored of running FWD at the track, but in hindsight the money saved would probably have allowed me to pick up a beater project car is relegate the Abarth more easily to commute and occasional fun duty, and now that I actually have first hand experience with a FWD that can turn, well, let's just say I have an eye on those falling prices and their long term reliability for similar reasons.

It's a great time to be an enthusiast with a $20kish budget if you're not stuck up about FWD with the Mini, Abarth, fist/fist, gti, even the Mazda3 (and older speeds) all readily available to put a smile on your face and a load of lumber in the back, and a new Civic on the way.

[Talus1]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

The Cayman starts at $75,000 CAD

I hope the fit and finish are FAR superior to the FR-S/BRZ

I could have a FR-S and a BRZ with lots of change lol

I can't disagree, though I wonder why you'd get one of each. His'n hers maybe?

My BRZ may feel a little cheap to me, which it is, but it is still compelling even in comparison to the Cayman S. However, after 3 years of the BRZ, I still want a Cayman as my next sports car.

[DAEMANO]

I also currently have an 500C Abarth in the stable. Being a "C" it's a convertible so i feel like I can speak directly to your ( @EZBRZY ) question.

PROS
Like many have noted, Abarth's are incredibly fun cars. The convertible model even more so. So much character, from the gutsy little engine, to the extremely well conceived design, to that incredible Abarth exhaust note. It pops and cracks and barks like a car 3 classes up. The low weight combined with gobs of torque make it dart through holes in traffic and up hills in a way that it feels like it shouldn't be able to. It has intangibles just as my FR-S does. It feels right.

The steering is good. In sport mode, the steering weight is actually heavier than the FR-S. The steering wheel is slightly thicker than the FR-S'. It delivers less feedback than the FR-S though, but then again few modern cars under $60k manage what the FR-S does in that department.

The 500C Abarth has a lot of body roll, but plenty of grip. Drive it smooth and after the roll, the tires hook up and stick. At the limit, it understeers like all FWD cars do. We haven't changed the shocks, springs, or sways to mitigate this. The car was never intended to be that serious.

The car has been very reliable. Fix It Again Tony never showed up with this car. Only issues were a creaking sound in the passenger door and the convertible top doesn't seal perfectly when put through an automated touch car wash (which we shouldn't be doing anyhow). The paint is harder than the paint on my FR-S so it has fewer chips and took to polishing well.

Long highway drives are more comfortable than a person might think. We regularly take this car from O.C. to San Francisco (about 500 miles each way). The softer springs on the "C" model make touring a comfortable non-fatiguing event. It soaks bumps like a larger car and maneuvers around debris like a go-kart. It's especially good for highway trips given that the little Abarth can keep up with nearly everything on the road with just a downshift.

The mileage is very good. We've been able to regularly manage 40 MPG on the highway if the speed is kept 55-65 mph. Grand touring at 70-90 mph drops the mileage to about 30ish. In the city about 26 is normal in So Cal's congested streets.

The convertible top is made of decent fabric that hasn't stained or faded. The power mechanism still feels as good as it did 3 years ago. Dropping the top is a treat, especially cruising on PCH or driving through the mountains.

Stock the 1.4L Turbo motor is a great deal of fun on regular grade gas. It needs nothing. Still if you'd like to mod, it safely outputs 190- 200 WHP /200-220 TQ with just an ECU tune. There are many plug and play tuning options for the car. At 2500 lbs, this is massive amounts of fun.

CONS specific to the convertible.

When the top is all the way down you lose rear-view mirror visibility completely. As in, all you see in the rear view mirror is the folded down top. This is mitigated by the car being so dang short that the side view convex mirror nearly shows the driver what's behind the car. Seriously it's that short.

The 500C has a trunk instead of a hatchback like standard 500 models. This reduces the cargo space considerably over standard 500s. This can only be your only car if you have a lifestyle that supports not carrying much more than 5 bags of groceries or a couple of carry-on bags (one in the trunk, one in the back seat).

General Cons
The shifter throws are long as shit on all models. Get a short shifter kit if this bugs you.

Nothing else. Fuck it's a little fun car.


In the end
We'll be regrettably returning the Abarth after it's 3 year lease is up this weekend. For what? A 500X CUV (Pop/Base trim) with MT and the same 1.4L Turbo engine that we will turn into a quasi 500X Abarth or Mini-Macan. That's how good this little car has been. Loved it. Might even make a build thread for the 500X on some Fiat board. The actual 500X Abarth will be out next year sometime, but who knows at what powertrain and price. Too late for us. In the end, the 500C Abarth has been an absolute blast, and if you're in a place to fit one in your life it's highly recommended.

I wont speak to the Porsche cause I haven't owned one.

p.s. residual value on our 500C Abarth is $16,600, purchase price was $26.5k). If you can find one for anywhere near $16k. You've found a deal. Best of luck.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Easiest clutch I've ever driven, and the ergonomics are awkward as you sit very upright, reaching out for the controls it feels like a park bench compared to the cockpit of an 86. The details are fading after nearly 4 years but the 86 has never made me smile like that.

The engine barks and howls and turbo lag is real but small in the 1.4L, but to me far more forgivable than the fly by wire delay in the 86s throttle. It darted so effortlessly through traffic and just begged begged begged for more. People say that about the 86 as well, but to me the 86 it's much more serious, whenever I go for a risk in the 86 I feel bad for my passengers, in the Abarth I gave absolutely zero shits how uncomfortable I made that salesman and my gf.

I won't argue that it's a perfect car, or even objectively the best car in the segment, it is and will be terribly devisive because it has glaring flaws. But I had a blast driving it that I didn't replicate in the 86 until I was on a closed circuit. I didn't buy it because I didn't want to have to eat the loss selling it 3-5 years later when i got bored of running FWD at the track, but in hindsight the money saved would probably have allowed me to pick up a beater project car is relegate the Abarth more easily to commute and occasional fun duty, and now that I actually have first hand experience with a FWD that can turn, well, let's just say I have an eye on those falling prices and their long term reliability for similar reasons.

It's a great time to be an enthusiast with a $20kish budget if you're not stuck up about FWD with the Mini, Abarth, fist/fist, gti, even the Mazda3 (and older speeds) all readily available to put a smile on your face and a load of lumber in the back, and a new Civic on the way.

Thanks This is Super Insightful

[Re_Invention]

I'm with Zions, I think this is a weird discussion: you're looking for a DD (1.5 hours per day of sitting in traffic?) and want something characterful. That seems like a irrational approach to your situation. $30k buys you a lot of new 4x4 Tacoma to tow your race car and go off-roading and it'll be worth $31k in six years with 100,000 miles on it

I've tried talking my wife into an Abarth for months, we figured $12-14k would be a fun and cost effective way to add an Italian to the garage without stepping on the other car's personalities. Great sound, cheap cost to entry and quirky as hell. I wouldn't trust one if my livelihood depended on it but it sounds like you've got options in the event of a spontaneous break. Just keep that BRZ street legal a little while longer. Character in that same vein would be the Mini Coopers.

At the top of the spectrum. If you're looking for character and at Porsche's have you thought about a 911? In my opinion you get something more consistent than the Fiat, more spacious than the Cayman, and just about as quirky of a driving style as you can get. I nabbed my '07 911 for $30k+TTL with 53k miles on it. The argument "Cayman is faster around a track", while true, won't apply to you since you have the BRZ for track duty. You'll have the same engine issues (IMS) in either Cayman or 911 pre DI, same Porsche tax on parts, but less headache for DIY projects. The 911 is a complete PITA to work on, I can only imagine how much more aggravating the Cayman is. Cayman has character but I'll agree with Talus: it and the BRZ are on the same spectrum. I passed on a Cayman because 1) I already owned an S2000, 2) I don't fit comfortably & can't get inside with a helmet on, 3) it drives predictably and consistently and 4) albeit gorgeous - wasn't the shape I wanted for the same $.

If I fit, however, and needed to consolidate to one parking space I'd buy a 987.2 Cayman/S - use the saved money over the 911 to buy an extra set of wheels & rubber, ramps and jack stands and a few wrenches. Then drive it for 500k miles.

The 911 (and the terror that is driving it quick!) gets glossed over on its driving dynamics because folks don't take off the nannies and explore - maybe the higher price to entry shaped the demographics of country club drivers. It's an absurdly solid car that quickly turns the pucker factor on driving it like you would a typical sports car - which I think is a riot. It gets white knuckle on the way to speed - puts you on edge because you're driving it counter intuitively, which is different than say the S2K or BRZ (with rubber) which is predictable and confident on the journey there. Jumping between my S2k and the p-wagen on Sunday drives or at the autocross is criminally fun, they couldn't be further apart. Sounds like you'd get to experience that polarity, too. But the 911 is not nearly as input involving. The long gearing, displacement (torque) and wide rubber means you park it in third gear and focus on steering and throttle commitments.

[Sonic Motor]

Not entirely relevant to the two cars, but mainly from my personal experience...

Have you thought about maybe a truck? If your BRZ is going to be a dedicated track car, you may want to look into one... I mean HOPEFULLY nothing would ever happen, but when driving your car hard at the track, you never know if it'll make it home mechanically or cosmetically. Very beneficial both physically and in the "mental peace of mind" department. I understand your choices, and not everyone needs a truck, but just food for thought.

I thought buying my truck was going to put me asleep, but in reality the only thing I hate about it is the MPG (which I deal with as I know the kind of vehicle I'm driving.). It's only duties are DD'ing and towing my old cars around, although I've already noticed how useful it is in everyday life. Plus, the mothertrucker SCOOTS when you put the pedal down.

Now, to stray onto the topic, I've always been VERY interested in the abarths, and I think for a daily, you couldn't go wrong. Why buy a track car, when you have one in the garage

Just my .02


EDIT: Also don't forget, maintenance comes with porsches (yes, I understand all cars need to be maintained.) hand in hand, otherwise you'll have a fancy paperweight