Mad's GT-R

[themadscientist]

Started picking parts off the engine to put them up for sale. The 720s are heading off to get cleaned and flow checked. they are perfect for my DR30 refresh. The Greddy fuel rail is going.




The manifold and the chi-com knockoff wastegate are still solid and somebody can use I'm sure.





That rat bastard unsprung triple is going up for sale too. Dam, that thing was such a PITA to use. it still has a ton of meat left on the plates and it hasn't been overheated so somebody will want it.

[themadscientist]

Care packages from Greddy!



I plan on long full throttle blasts and high speed cruising so I need extra oil capacity and they have me covered on all fronts starting with the extra capacity oil pan sump extension. The pan must be cut and this piece welded on.





The front and rear diffs will also get larger capacity help keep them cool. I will be putting temperature meter sensors in the rear diff and transmission. If I see high temps I have some oil cooler kits I can hook up, but I'm not going to that trouble if it's not really needed. I'm expecting the extra capacity and cooling fins will keep all my gear oil at a comfortable temperature.

Front





Rear

[Summerwolf]

Yep, love this. Have seriously considered picking up an R32 for a while now.

[themadscientist]

So they popped the valve covers off and it looks like there are some Apexi cams in there, hmm. It was held on with ARP head studs too, nice. Metal head gasket in there, of course.




Somebody did some intake port work too. They also cut out one quench pad and rounded off another. If I was doing a backyard rebuild myself I would consider myself lucky, scrub everything clean, check the deck and throw it back on, but I'm not. I find this to be a problem. I'm not going to use this head.



The engine overall was super nasty. Sitting so long without running left a lot of scale in the water jacket and it's just disconcerting to look at. I'm not getting a warm fuzzy. Again, if I was shadetreeing this thing myself, scrub it up and send it off to get the bores and deck checked. I'm not, though. I really don't want to use this block





Uh-oh. It's small, but there is a crack between the water jacket and a head bolt hole. It's not big at all and if this was a DIY build I'd probably still use it, but this is a some fucks given, but not very many build. This will not do. Part of me was like "fuck!" but most of me was like "hey, I had to buy a new one, the old one was cracked."

Yep, full retard protocols have just been initiated. This thing truly will be a "new" engine. I have sent out the call for price quotes on new castings.

[themadscientist]

I've been sensing the guy at the shop really wants to talk more in depth about the build and he only speaks a little English and I speak only a little more Japanese. I can see the frustration on his face and I want to know what's up so i swung by yesterday with my wife to help us communicate better. Her english is better than most Americans, lik 4 realz, YO! but she doesn't speak cars so she can say some of the mechanical terms, but she is not sure exactly what either of us is talking about in either English or Japanese. Boy, I got an earful from the guy. I think I should have benn laying down on a couch and paying him $200 an hour because he dropped the psychology on me. I walked into an intervention.

Basically, when we started this thing, the plan was a low mileage R34 engine, head gasket, cams, my T78 kit and a fuel system upgrade and tune on the Power FC. He was fully on board with that and so was I. Along the way, as I hit snags I vectored up sharply rather than around the trouble stepping the level of the build and the power up. While this eliminated the initial problem it caused new secondary problems of the extra things required to support that upgrade. An engine and a car are the sum of their parts and when one is insanely more capable than the others the others must work harder or be replaced. For an example I merely point to this still rather young thread to see how it snowballs.

He was really worried on several fronts. He was concerned I was spending a ton of money and the more money I spent the greater would be my disappointment if something went wrong. He has had a few customers com in and do everything in one shot like this, it went south and they were very angry. I asked if I was pushing him past his capability, but he said no, he could build it, but shit happens. I know that's true, agreed.

He was concerned that such a failure would really piss me off, I would blame him and say bad things about the shop and not trust him to work on my stuff anymore. It was more than just that, I really could tell he was coming from the angle of having a happy customer and maintaining a relationship. Not the drug dealer looking for a comeback addict, but a business that you feel safe and confident dealing with so it's always your first choice when you need similar work again. I've been a customer service industry type manager for a long time, I get where he's coming from.

He asked why I wanted all this power anyway. I've already told him I'm not going drag racing with it and I don't have any interest in trying to muscle this heavy understeering juggernaut down a togue, but really just intend to lug around in it and occasionally blasting down the highway to stretch her legs out. I don't go out looking for trouble anymore and we have no track around here so I'm really asking him to sell me a sledgehammer to use In shingle laying business. Guilty, point you, guy.

The other reason was harder for me to swallow. He was afraid I was going to just straight up kill myself in this evil thing I was having him build. He explained that most of his customers started off with a stock car and stepped up through the power levels and grew in ability along with the car. The idea of my jumping out of the BRZ into a 700+HP death machine is giving him some sleepless nights. A guy put himself in a wheelchair in one of the cars they built and he doesn't like the idea of someone dying in one. A bit dramatic, but I can understand.

After I let him get all that off his chest he wrapped it up by saying that it's my car and if I'm still dead set on building this Kraken, he'll do it, but he really hopes I'll let him rip this engine the rest of the way down, inspect it further, if either the block or head is unworkable he'll snag another used one and build, essentially, what we planned at the beginning. He is happy to build the monster if this build bores me, but he really thinks it would be better to get back on the road with this first. He correctly pointed out where my car is deficient, um, which part, oh yeah, EVERYWHERE ELSE, and suggested after the car is back on the road going through the drivetrain, brakes, suspension etc before stepping up to the wrecking ball engine. I definitely agree that the whole rest of the car needs going through.

This put me a really conflicted state. I'm feeling a lot of emotions about this.

I'm a little angry and confrontational. I've driven powerful cars well. My RX7 was a guided missile. It only had 300hp, but it was very much ready to kill you if you didn't respect it. I drove it very much like I drove the GT-R before the turbo blew and would when it was fixed, with respect. Unfortunately, I know that as you go up in power shit gets harder exponentially. 400hp doesn't feel twice as powerful as 200hp, it's more like three times. I drove a 400hp FC and my 300hp FC didn't feel 25% less deadly, it felt 50% less insane. With the intention of using the 4094R instead of the T78 and buying new block and head, I was going to set the HP figure higher. I pushed the juvenile alpha male confidence to the point of death wish BS down; he is absolutely right.

I'm actually relieved. The original plan is what I wanted. I'm sorry, it's more complicated than that. It's what 40 year old me wanted. What happened was when we started to encounter trouble, apparently, I had a seance and invoked the spirit of 20 year old me, he hijacked my credit card and internet connection and went insane. THAT GUY wanted 1000hp and top shelf everything, but he didn't have the money to do it. THIS GUY has the money to do it, but really isn't that pumped to do it. I want to drive my car again and have enough power where it scares me a little. I had that before the turbo popped. This build spun out of control quickly and I was not really happy about it, but just hung on so we could finish with the hope that I didn't regret it.

Thank you, sir, for the intervention. You gave me that little push I needed to rein this silliness in. I went to this shop because everyone I know who has dealt with them has been treated well and if anything went wrong it wasn't the shop's fault. I see what the kids bring in to them and expect them to work with; garbage in, garbage out and how the hell did they make it last that long?! It took a fair amount of balls and character to say what he said to a paying customer. I really appreciate and respect him for doing that.

The whole thing made me laugh because i have given very similar counsel to other people and not one of them listened and all of them regretted it. I pondered that for a moment.

Fine, let's turn down the crazy, you build what YOU think I need instead of what I think I want. If you are willing to put your name on it, I'll trust you. If you miss the mark, though, I'm going to beat you up about it, if that block starts blowing coolant you are going to have to look me in the eye when I limp it in. If that N1 pump that you say is perfectly fine shatters like they seem to with frequency we are going to have a heated discussion next to my busted car and I will be bringing a large takeout box of crow for you to chow down on. Conversely, if something breaks because I beat on it, winding the engine up to 9K causing the pump to blow for example, then that would be my fault and I won't be blaming you for it. If it scares me a little, though, and it stays together, I will absolutely give you all the credit for keeping me honest.

Some of this pile of uber parts is going to get put on the shelf. Some of it is more than I would gone with for the original, more realistic build, but they are already bought and buying a lesser part to align with the lower power build would be more waste. I'll have to use the huge intercooler and oil cooler for example, but the stroker kit gets put away. My hedge? I am still going to buy a new head and block, N1 if I can find it, and put them on the shelf next to the other stuff. If this current build misses the mark, I'll probably sell the car with it in there since it's got a few small issues and look for the cleanest, newest R32 I can and we are going to do it my way, 20 year old me can get that dirt bike he always wanted.

[themadscientist]

Yeah, welcome to the mind of a disturbed person. When I said I was fine with all that sedate shit I was, of course, completely full of it. That enlightened mood lasted minutes, MINUTES! While it is true that if it had gone as planned with no snags I would have been happy, it didn't. It got messed up and derailed and I just don't like "good enough." If The R34 engine was a go all would have been fine and I would have been very happy. I have a huge pile of top-shelf stuff now, though, and that gear is not going on the shelf. Screw that noise.

So, me being the pretty vindictive emotional girl I am I got mad and I started to get adversarial. Sorry ladies, maybe YOU don't do this, but I guaran-godd-damned-tee you ALL your friends do. My inner monologue went kind of like this.



Yup, it was childish and more than a little embarrassing, but at the core, under the dramatic BS it is true. I want what I want and fuck you if you don't agree. I got super insane there for a day. I mean, like, never mid; I want to move past that dumb crap I was thinking and saying, Cliff's notes, I'm going to get exactly what I want, period. Now, I am very excited about the idea of the car being back on the road in any form and this shop can do that no problem if I back off and let them do their cookie cutter milquetoast shit. Fine, do that, gimme my car back and I will start upgrading everything else while I have another engine built. That became the plan. Use all the old shit, replace what needs to be replaced and nothing more and finish the damned thing.

The dude is pretty astute. He got done cleaning the head and had me take a look. It cleaned up well. Two bad valve guides, nothing terrible. We discussed the plan and I told him to reuse the cams with fresh springs and do the Naprec Response kit. http://www.naprec.co.jp/product_en/hrk-rb26 The head needs the overhaul, fine, do that. We walk over to the block and I ask "are you using this" and kick it. He gets shifty about it and tries to justify it then admits we need another block and he mentions my 2.8 kit going into it. I stop him and remind him we are doing the weak-ass C+ trophy for participation same old pathetic shit build and he isn't using my full counter forged 2.8 stroker kit for that, "good enough, remember?" Yeah, I said it like your girlfriend would too. I'll own it.



He starts thinking about where he can get a decent used block to put this stock shit into and I ask "do you want to use my brand new block?" He's shocked and asks me if I bought it and I just laughed. "Of course, I said I was going to." That block was going to be for the second engine. He's very excited about getting a new engine block to build. You starting to see what I'm doing?



My ass isn't that epic, but I felt I owed you some candy for slogging through all my aimless insane rambling. You're welcome. Yeah, I tell him he can use the block, but he is going to have to take that good enough shit and stuff it. He agrees. OK, now the bitch girl has what she wants and she's willing to have sex. I ask him if he still wants to use the cylinder head with the bad guides. He says yeah and explains the work that they will do and it will be great. I ask why he doesn't want to use the new cylinder head I ordered with the block. he gave me the Ralphie look like when his dad told him there was another box behind the desk.



He actually waved at the old head like "fuck that thing." So, we are back on track, that crazy track that Indiana Jones rode down it Temple of Doom, sure, but that's MY track so it's great, weeee! I swung by Nissan yesterday to check on something and coincidentally the cylinder head is already here! I like the smell of new parts. Yes, yes, I frigging sniffed the thing. You don't? Something is wrong with you, then.








I have heard how rough some of these things are coming out of the box and yeah, there is a lot of work to be done in there!

[themadscientist]

More stuff has arrived!

I want to keep all the heat in the exhaust system and not radiating all over my engine bay. I tapped PTP for some of their stuff. I went with their Lava line of products. The outer layer is actually woven basalt fibers with calcium silicate insulation inside rated to 1800 F continuous contact. That's hot enough to touch my damned credit card! It's starting to melt at this point. I got two widths of wrap for the manifold, the form-fitted T4 blanket and gold foil heat shielding for the strut tower and firewall.






The T78 is about the same size as the T4 so the blanket fits it well.






It's T78-33D with a 17CM hot side. It should wind up pretty quick for an outdated diesel turbo with a flashy compressor housing. The 2.8 stroker with the 260/10.25 cams should help it come on a bit faster, but it's no GTX or EFR.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I've been sensing the guy at the shop really wants to talk more in depth about the build and he only speaks a little English and I speak only a little more Japanese. I can see the frustration on his face and I want to know what's up so i swung by yesterday with my wife to help us communicate better. Her english is better than most Americans, lik 4 realz, YO! but she doesn't speak cars so she can say some of the mechanical terms, but she is not sure exactly what either of us is talking about in either English or Japanese. Boy, I got an earful from the guy. I think I should have benn laying down on a couch and paying him $200 an hour because he dropped the psychology on me. I walked into an intervention.

Basically, when we started this thing, the plan was a low mileage R34 engine, head gasket, cams, my T78 kit and a fuel system upgrade and tune on the Power FC. He was fully on board with that and so was I. Along the way, as I hit snags I vectored up sharply rather than around the trouble stepping the level of the build and the power up. While this eliminated the initial problem it caused new secondary problems of the extra things required to support that upgrade. An engine and a car are the sum of their parts and when one is insanely more capable than the others the others must work harder or be replaced. For an example I merely point to this still rather young thread to see how it snowballs.

He was really worried on several fronts. He was concerned I was spending a ton of money and the more money I spent the greater would be my disappointment if something went wrong. He has had a few customers com in and do everything in one shot like this, it went south and they were very angry. I asked if I was pushing him past his capability, but he said no, he could build it, but shit happens. I know that's true, agreed.

He was concerned that such a failure would really piss me off, I would blame him and say bad things about the shop and not trust him to work on my stuff anymore. It was more than just that, I really could tell he was coming from the angle of having a happy customer and maintaining a relationship. Not the drug dealer looking for a comeback addict, but a business that you feel safe and confident dealing with so it's always your first choice when you need similar work again. I've been a customer service industry type manager for a long time, I get where he's coming from.

He asked why I wanted all this power anyway. I've already told him I'm not going drag racing with it and I don't have any interest in trying to muscle this heavy understeering juggernaut down a togue, but really just intend to lug around in it and occasionally blasting down the highway to stretch her legs out. I don't go out looking for trouble anymore and we have no track around here so I'm really asking him to sell me a sledgehammer to use In shingle laying business. Guilty, point you, guy.

The other reason was harder for me to swallow. He was afraid I was going to just straight up kill myself in this evil thing I was having him build. He explained that most of his customers started off with a stock car and stepped up through the power levels and grew in ability along with the car. The idea of my jumping out of the BRZ into a 700+HP death machine is giving him some sleepless nights. A guy put himself in a wheelchair in one of the cars they built and he doesn't like the idea of someone dying in one. A bit dramatic, but I can understand.

After I let him get all that off his chest he wrapped it up by saying that it's my car and if I'm still dead set on building this Kraken, he'll do it, but he really hopes I'll let him rip this engine the rest of the way down, inspect it further, if either the block or head is unworkable he'll snag another used one and build, essentially, what we planned at the beginning. He is happy to build the monster if this build bores me, but he really thinks it would be better to get back on the road with this first. He correctly pointed out where my car is deficient, um, which part, oh yeah, EVERYWHERE ELSE, and suggested after the car is back on the road going through the drivetrain, brakes, suspension etc before stepping up to the wrecking ball engine. I definitely agree that the whole rest of the car needs going through.

This put me a really conflicted state. I'm feeling a lot of emotions about this.

I'm a little angry and confrontational. I've driven powerful cars well. My RX7 was a guided missile. It only had 300hp, but it was very much ready to kill you if you didn't respect it. I drove it very much like I drove the GT-R before the turbo blew and would when it was fixed, with respect. Unfortunately, I know that as you go up in power shit gets harder exponentially. 400hp doesn't feel twice as powerful as 200hp, it's more like three times. I drove a 400hp FC and my 300hp FC didn't feel 25% less deadly, it felt 50% less insane. With the intention of using the 4094R instead of the T78 and buying new block and head, I was going to set the HP figure higher. I pushed the juvenile alpha male confidence to the point of death wish BS down; he is absolutely right.

I'm actually relieved. The original plan is what I wanted. I'm sorry, it's more complicated than that. It's what 40 year old me wanted. What happened was when we started to encounter trouble, apparently, I had a seance and invoked the spirit of 20 year old me, he hijacked my credit card and internet connection and went insane. THAT GUY wanted 1000hp and top shelf everything, but he didn't have the money to do it. THIS GUY has the money to do it, but really isn't that pumped to do it. I want to drive my car again and have enough power where it scares me a little. I had that before the turbo popped. This build spun out of control quickly and I was not really happy about it, but just hung on so we could finish with the hope that I didn't regret it.

Thank you, sir, for the intervention. You gave me that little push I needed to rein this silliness in. I went to this shop because everyone I know who has dealt with them has been treated well and if anything went wrong it wasn't the shop's fault. I see what the kids bring in to them and expect them to work with; garbage in, garbage out and how the hell did they make it last that long?! It took a fair amount of balls and character to say what he said to a paying customer. I really appreciate and respect him for doing that.

The whole thing made me laugh because i have given very similar counsel to other people and not one of them listened and all of them regretted it. I pondered that for a moment.

Fine, let's turn down the crazy, you build what YOU think I need instead of what I think I want. If you are willing to put your name on it, I'll trust you. If you miss the mark, though, I'm going to beat you up about it, if that block starts blowing coolant you are going to have to look me in the eye when I limp it in. If that N1 pump that you say is perfectly fine shatters like they seem to with frequency we are going to have a heated discussion next to my busted car and I will be bringing a large takeout box of crow for you to chow down on. Conversely, if something breaks because I beat on it, winding the engine up to 9K causing the pump to blow for example, then that would be my fault and I won't be blaming you for it. If it scares me a little, though, and it stays together, I will absolutely give you all the credit for keeping me honest.

Some of this pile of uber parts is going to get put on the shelf. Some of it is more than I would gone with for the original, more realistic build, but they are already bought and buying a lesser part to align with the lower power build would be more waste. I'll have to use the huge intercooler and oil cooler for example, but the stroker kit gets put away. My hedge? I am still going to buy a new head and block, N1 if I can find it, and put them on the shelf next to the other stuff. If this current build misses the mark, I'll probably sell the car with it in there since it's got a few small issues and look for the cleanest, newest R32 I can and we are going to do it my way, 20 year old me can get that dirt bike he always wanted.

Sounds like neither of you are going to be happy. Just saying.... you might as well build it right the first time.

[slicktop]

I'm assuming you're in Okinawa? Stationed or retired?

[zc06_kisstherain]

cant wait to see finished car!

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Sounds like neither of you are going to be happy. Just saying.... you might as well build it right the first time.

I am forcing him to build what I want, but yes, you are right, neither of us is happy. He's going to whine about the turbo blanket next. He thinks you should only put those on turbos with water cooled center sections. It's nice theory, but it's just that. I know he has no real evidence. There is evidence, however, that using it should increase exhaust gas velocity for a bit faster spool and that it will lower underhood temperatures somewhat so it's going on there.

I already have a second builder lined up if this build bores me or I feel the work isn't good enough and I'm willing to do it again if that's what I have to do. I'm really picky so I accept the extra struggle as the cost of getting what I want. Everybody who knows me laughs when I say it, but I just don't see any way this beast could bore me. It will have almost double the power of anything I've ever owned and I have been putt-putting around in the BRZ for a year; my perspective is low. This thing should scare the hell out of me.

My friends and family seem to think I will be wanting more in less than a month. They do know me well, they are rarely wrong, but I hope they are this time. I just want to drive my car again. It's still not back from the body shop and I'm all itchy. I put together a full gauge package out of my "box o gauges" and some vintage DEFIs I scored that match what I already had and I can start sorting out the interior while they are waiting for the cylinder head to get back from being hogged out to flow the entire jet stream. I have a Recaro in the pile of parts that can replace the worn out, torn stock seat perfectly. I think I might need to get serious about putting the roll cage in it. I could feel it twist and flex before. It's only going to get worse. I've also seen what happens to R32s when they wreck. It looks like this.



They bend in half along the plane of the front seats like there is an invisible hinge in there. It's not a pretty sight and not the way I am looking to go out.

[themadscientist]

Status report: The car is still in the body shop getting the engine compartment sorted out, the cylinder head is still up at NAPREC getting machined to within an inch of its life and the engine block is still coming. More goodies have arrived. I think I'm getting close to being finished sourcing parts.



First, cam sprockets and lifters. My engine builder is getting the cams, springs, retainers, keepers and shims, NAPREC is providing the larger valves, but Tomei is out of stock on sprockets and lifters. Luckily, Tomei USA had some in stock. I was offered HKS sprockets, but I don't like only having three bolts locking the sprocket down. I'm sure there are few instances of failure, if any, but I just want maximum clamping. The Tomei sprockets have five bolts so good to go. The lifters are required because of the lift on the cams. They are 10.25 so factory height lifters won't work with that base circle. NAPREC also has to hog out the casting to let those things actually spin in the head.





I ordered ARP studs and bolts, but I forgot that I told ole boy to use some Tomei head and main studs. Not sure why I did that. They are more expensive and no better. Oh well, I know I'll be building another RB26 so I have those parts already. I will be using the flywheel bolts at least.



This is a crucial component, the harmonic balancer. I'm very serious about combating vibration in the rotating assembly. That has a lot to do with the fully counterweighted crankshaft which, owing to how beat up it got in transit, will probably be heading back into the machine shop for a check and possible rebalance. The ATI unit is rated highly and seen on many big power builds.




It comes with 360 degrees of timing marks and a water pump pulley.

[Guff]

My god. You really are a mad scientist!

Godspeed.

[themadscientist]

So, Nissan called....

The company that makes the blocks (it's not Nissan?) can't get enough metal or some such crap. The cliff's Notes of it, no block until, at the earliest, October.

Excuse me a moment.