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Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps. |
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10-04-2020, 08:14 PM | #15 | |
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A full EV swap is probably $25k-50k depending on the motor, batteries, size of the batteries and system accessories and integration.
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10-04-2020, 08:35 PM | #16 | |
extra what?
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But also remember how long the Tesla lasts at full bore.
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10-04-2020, 11:49 PM | #17 | |
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EDIT Don't listen to me, I'm dumb. My initial impression was that batteries were included. They are definitely not, this is just the motor.
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10-05-2020, 12:38 AM | #18 | ||
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https://www.slashgear.com/ev-west-ha...-kit-03640947/ Quote:
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10-05-2020, 01:33 AM | #19 |
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Also, several EV 86’s have been done before:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidee...leaf-swap/amp/ https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-a-tuning-shop Does a hybrid count? https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/41...aru-brz-hybrid
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10-05-2020, 05:19 AM | #20 | |
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Ever drove a Tesla Roadster? Batteripackage and Motor in the rear. Great acceleration but terible handling if you ask me...
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10-05-2020, 11:57 AM | #21 | ||
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I said the ideal setup would be to have the motor in the rear and the batteries in the fuel tank location, and then I joked about cutting the shell of a 86 and setting it on the Tesla powertrain aka the skateboard. I think the best setup is the batteries in the rear behind the driver and between the wheels. The motor would be best in the rear between the wheels, so the car is lighter because it doesn't need the drive shaft and differential bits. The inverter and other controllers can go up front. This should keep most of the weight central with a bias on the rear wheels for the best traction. The original Roadster has a wheelbase that was 92'', so the 86 would have nine more inches of space for the batteries, which should allow everything to lower below the wheels, where the original roadster had stuff above the wheels. I have never been in a Roadster, but the handling seems to get compared to a Lotus that shares the same chassis, yet the Lotus weighs like 2200lbs, so I don't know if that is the best comparison. Maybe the weight is too rear biased like a Porsche or something, or maybe it is what I said, and the weight is too high because of the wheelbase. I think someone could do a 86 right, especially if they wanted to make a track car because they could remove the passenger seat and add a similar weight to their weight battery in that location for balance, which would be in addition to the one behind them in the seat/fuel tank position. On a separate note, it is worth noting that the Tesla Roadster weighed about the same as an 86, and it had 248hp and 200tq, which isn't amazing, yet because of the instant torque and gearless transmission, it was able to go 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and do a quarter mile in the 12.6s.
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10-05-2020, 01:51 PM | #22 |
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Kind of funny that last night I was talking with my friends about the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid supposedly running 8s in the 1/4 mile. Made me think of checking this forum because I called EV West earlier this year to see if they thought about making a conversion for the FR-S. They said they only modified older cars and kit cars at that point in time. I would be interested in an electric swap kit for an FR-S only if it is cheaper than an LSX swap kit. I just can't justify the price of the LSX swap kit alone - might as well just buy a Camaro or a Mustang and mod from there.
If money was not a constraint, a dual motor Tesla P85D swap into this car would be insane. Subscribing to this thread. |
10-05-2020, 02:05 PM | #23 | |
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10-05-2020, 02:38 PM | #24 |
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I just don't see the $50K appeal. You can buy a Model 3 Performance for $50K brand new. It's an ugly electric car, to me, and I doubt the driving experience will be as fun as an electric FR-S, but it's an ugly electric car with a warranty. The only way this is remotely sensible is if you are trying to comply with strict emissions laws and you don't want to deal with removing modifications for emissions tests. Isn't a fully built FR-S engine $9K or less? $50K puts you in the ballpark of several nice used cars. I will keep monitoring this to see how long it takes for the price to come down.
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10-05-2020, 04:38 PM | #25 |
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Laptimes @ Nordschleife
Tesla P85D (lightweight compound body, magnesium parts used for major parts of axels and rolling chassis, E drive optmized chassis, AWD, and YES 7 seats): 8.50s Subaru BRZ (2.0 NA boxer not-any-kind-of-a-legend engine, low cost traditional chassis design, lightweight by aluminium hood, RWD, and redicioulous 2+2 seats): 8.19s Sorry, not talking about top secret ring monster builds, developed for the attempts to beat other models of sportscar manufacturers. I would lean that far out the window to say if subayota would have had any intresst to do something like that with the 86 chassis they might have put in a FI 2.0 boxer, semi slicks, widebody and some other sweetness to have this chassis running middle of the 7min too. (sure, you need two of them to Transport the same amount of passengers, but you could buy probably 3 to 4 of them for the same price) But I think they dont have that kind of interesst. Why? Simple: No one cares. To be clear, I dont want to put hate on any E vehicles. But I dont like the massive hype. Both concepts have pros and cons and I would say that in the end there will be a coexistence. (Local) emmisions are not the big, beating all other points argument for E vehicles, since there is more to be taken into consideration than only local emmisions. There is also a chemical time bomb which, in my book, nobody has a realy full solution for at the moment. On the other hand there are concepts for sythetic fuel, generated by using CO2 out of ambient air and electricity. Nobody is following this. If you ask me because its currently not "trending". Something one could say about E vehicle 10 years ago. Even hydrogen is a better concept in my eyes if we are talking about total emmissions. This beeing said, I didnt had the intension to start a pro or con E mobility debate. Thats useless since more then enough other Us are debating about that. I just wasnt abel to withstand my frustration that specific concepts are hyped and nobody realy takes care of downsides and does a straight forward, pure technical discussion, which also takes possible future developments and more than only two of the possible concepts into consideration. Thats also the only reason I (intensionaly) used the striking expression in the beginning of this post: Its used by the supporters of the one and the other concept. No matter if we take the E-mobility-is-the-only-future-guys or the LS-everything-guys or the everything-needs-FI-guys. Now PLEASE, BTT: I'm still not convinced that a EV swap in a 86 chassis is reasonable compared to other possible options in matter of peeformance and effort. (What absolutely not means that its not an attractive option seen from an engineering standpoint) I also would say that this needs be discussed under the assumption that the car in question is not a pure racer. This brings to much hypothtical options (like cutting of the chassis to have a netter place for batteries/motors etc) For example: a LS swap is possible without that. And I understand the swap EV motor above as an attempt to do it exactly this way. Furthermore even a LS swap could be made with cutting the chassis and using a Corvette tranaxle to achieve different bias. What I want to say: we should compare under equal restrictions. Pricing for the swap is also an open topic in my eyes. In the states (and to keep it reasonably simple we should stay under that assumption) a LS swap is possible for mid to high 4 digit numbers. It is also possible for far more, no doubt about that. But what is the price for a reasonable EV swap? I didnt find any confirmed numbers about that, only guessing. Last thing, without cutting or massive modifications on the chassi, would the available space (what is fuel tank and engine bay) would be enough to place capacity for lets say 250-300miles? What would be price and weight? This are the 3 base questions which should be investigated here...
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10-05-2020, 04:56 PM | #26 |
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My Tamyia Bruiser had the same motor.
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10-05-2020, 10:27 PM | #27 | |
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Which hype? The idea that electric vehicles are the future, or the fact that the Tesla Model S Plaid was faster around Laguna Seca than the top sports cars and hypercars for less money (makes one wonder what the new Roadster will do)? EVs are not everything for everyone. There are some applications where they don't do great, and they have limitations. There are others where they might have an advantage like at altitude where air is thin and ICEs can struggle, which is perhaps why the record at Pike Peak is currently set by an electric car, to name an example. Chemical time bomb? Do you mean the battery? They are getting recycled or repurposed for grid storage. Hydrogen is a more expensive and less efficient means of turning electricity into locomotion. In the future, when energy is cheap and plentiful, and we have an abundance of extra energy that we can use to hydrolyze water, then making hydrogen in a green way will be possible, but until then, it just isn't green. Making synthetic oil/fuel from CO2 could be done if fuels are absolutely necessary. Of course, we use oil for all types of things that don't result in CO2 emissions, but this whole process is dependent on green sources of energy production, so it isn't sustainable without those processes. For instance, energy is needed to extra CO2 from the air, and then energy is needed to make the hydrogen, which currently 95% of hydrogen comes from fossil fuels, and then more energy is needed to make the hydrocarbons, which if the energy comes from a coal plant then this isn't a green process. Moreover, this just perpetuates the hunger for oil in our economy instead of finding sustainable solutions. Perhaps, if we have an abundance of green energy production then this would be possible, but it isn't green currently, which is why it isn't trending. It would be cool to see someone do an EV conversion. It would take someone with some engineering skill.
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Last edited by Irace86.2.0; 10-06-2020 at 01:33 AM. |
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10-05-2020, 10:44 PM | #28 | |
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