Worth going forged internals for reliability ?

[Irace86.2.0]

Why are people quoting crank hp? Are they estimating crank horsepower because they believe they know what the drivetrain loss was on the day of their dyno test, and they know the accuracy of the dyno? Why quote peak horsepower too? Wouldn’t it be more important to know how the hp and torque look over all the rpms? What about supporting mods like e85, oil coolers, boost by gear, etc, or driving style like is the person doing smooth transitions on a track or are they doing hard transitions like static or rolling drags where the loads are significantly harder on the drivetrain?

Some conditions might be inherently harder on the drivetrain and require more focus on the internals. Some might strain the oil system and cause starvation issues, so they might strain the bearings or other components. Some might tax the fuel system. Some might tax the cooling systems based on climate conditions, FI setup and driving conditions, so the focus may need to be with e85 and cooling the motor with a larger radiator and/or oil cooler.

I think any suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt or be explicitly detailed.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Why are people quoting crank hp? Are they estimating crank horsepower because they believe they know what the drivetrain loss was on the day of their dyno test, and they know the accuracy of the dyno?

I think, by looking at OP's location, that its because the dyno is a maha. Those dynos are able to get crank HP by calculating how much loss there is in the drivetrain. They are very precise if calibrated well.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by falcon_wizard

So far, in terms of failsafe, I’ve put a remote starter to warm the car up before I drive it, and stay in low boost map until the oil is at least 190F. I also have a 91octane map I could use, while fueling with 94. I’ll definitely look into a catch can or oil separator - it’s not something that was really on my radar to date. Besides that I run Gulf 5w40 and make oil changes every 5000km or sooner, and started getting my oil tested.

Is there anything else I missed I should be looking into ?

Cheers

Extensive amounts of datalogging and tuning.

What do you have for some common things say...

- heat soak (FMIC)
- run time (engine heat soak)
- fuel starvation (both DI and PI)
- overboost (failed bc or wg)
- bad fuel (low octane)

Things to think about.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Why are people quoting crank hp? Are they estimating crank horsepower because they believe they know what the drivetrain loss was on the day of their dyno test, and they know the accuracy of the dyno? Why quote peak horsepower too? Wouldn’t it be more important to know how the hp and torque look over all the rpms? What about supporting mods like e85, oil coolers, boost by gear, etc, or driving style like is the person doing smooth transitions on a track or are they doing hard transitions like static or rolling drags where the loads are significantly harder on the drivetrain?

Some conditions might be inherently harder on the drivetrain and require more focus on the internals. Some might strain the oil system and cause starvation issues, so they might strain the bearings or other components. Some might tax the fuel system. Some might tax the cooling systems based on climate conditions, FI setup and driving conditions, so the focus may need to be with e85 and cooling the motor with a larger radiator and/or oil cooler.

I think any suggestions should be taken with a grain of salt or be explicitly detailed.

Because that's what the OP started the conversation with, so that's how we keep the conversation consistent.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

I think, by looking at OP's location, that its because the dyno is a maha. Those dynos are able to get crank HP by calculating how much loss there is in the drivetrain. They are very precise if calibrated well.

So it can estimate drivetrain losses for a car better? Why not just talk about whp/wtq, even if that is just an estimate too, subject to conditions and calculations. Dynos are for tuning.

I'd rather hear something like this, even though this setup (my setup) doesn’t really answer or inform the OP:

Been boosted for 5k miles (67k on car) exclusively on 91 with stock internals with a peak boost of 13 psi (85mm pulley) on a roots Harrop SC that was tuned by DT, that sees aggressive daily driving, while doing spirited canyon driving and occasional hard hoonigan pulls around town. Car has an OEM oil cooler and catch cans running full synthetic at 5w30. Garaged at home and work with Northern California weather (typically dry/warm).

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

So it can estimate drivetrain losses for a car better? Why not just talk about whp/wtq, even if that is just an estimate too, subject to conditions and calculations. Dynos are for tuning.

I'd rather hear something like this, even though this setup (my setup) doesn’t really answer or inform the OP:

Been boosted for 5k miles (67k on car) exclusively on 91 with stock internals with a peak boost of 13 psi (85mm pulley) on a roots Harrop SC that was tuned by DT, that sees aggressive daily driving, while doing spirited canyon driving and occasional hard hoonigan pulls around town. Car has an OEM oil cooler and catch cans running full synthetic at 5w30. Garaged at home and work with Northern California weather (typically dry/warm).

Yes indeed, my dynos were done on a Maha dyno, and provided graphs for both Crank and wheel HPs. Basically, the torque curve climbs straight until peak torque of 260 pd-ft at 4000rpm, and then is flat until redline on high boost 94, on 91, it peaks just cuts at 213 pd-ft at 3500 rpm and then flat to redline (same curve but stops earlier) See charts attached- is it indeed more detailed than just a peak values. The car was tuned on that dyno. Besides that the kit was installed at about 65k km and now has 27k km on it, mostly city and highway, and 4hrs of on circuit HPDE. Oil cooler came 2 months ago as a result of temps seen during the hpde. 5w40 synth oil used and 94 octane gas used 98% of time. Car is maintained regularly by the same performance shop that manufactured, tuned and installed the turbo kit (intercooled). Weather is eastern Canada, so 15-30degC in summer and -10 to -30 degC in Winter...!

As mentionned earlier, I’m not an agressive driver, but will enjoy doing some strong acceleration from time to time, and plan to do 3-6 hrs (2-3 days) of HPDE per year. I now have an ODB2 reader with the ODB fusion app to monitor the car, but only have been monitoring oil temp so far.

[Icecreamtruk]

@falcon_wizard if you dont mind me asking, is that a Lachute Performance kit?

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

@falcon_wizard if you dont mind me asking, is that a Lachute Performance kit?

Yes, it is their Stage 1 kit, similar to what is now offered as their LP Turbo OEM offering when buying a brand new BRZ.

[86MLR]

From my research 300 is safe enough with a good safe tune and quality fuel, as long as your temps are kept in check.

Thats for the motor

Then it's the gearbox, 250nm rated, either have a few spare boxes or have yours built.

I was going to boost mine, I wanted a good lift in power, there's not alot of difference cost wise between 300-400hp, engine and bolt on wise anyway.

A built gear box and rear end brings substantial costs, upwards of 20k

So for the price of a new car you can make a boosted one "somewhat" reliable

Or, just grab a spare engine and box and replace when needed.

Me, I dropped my show bags, mine is staying NA

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

From my research 300 is safe enough with a good safe tune and quality fuel, as long as your temps are kept in check.

Thats for the motor

Then it's the gearbox, 250nm rated, either have a few spare boxes or have yours built.

I was going to boost mine, I wanted a good lift in power, there's not alot of difference cost wise between 300-400hp, engine and bolt on wise anyway.

A built gear box and rear end brings substantial costs, upwards of 20k

So for the price of a new car you can make a boosted one "somewhat" reliable

Or, just grab a spare engine and box and replace when needed.

Me, I dropped my show bags, mine is staying NA

Are you saying the stock gearbox is rated for 250 Newton-Meters or 185 tq? The stock clutch could probably handle that for a long time. A Stage 1 Exedy will handle 185 wtq for a long time, guaranteed. The actual gearset in the manual should be able to take around 400 ft-lbs tq (540Nm) before there is real risk. That seems to be the consensus.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Are you saying the stock gearbox is rated for 250 Newton-Meters or 185 tq? The stock clutch could probably handle that for a long time. A Stage 1 Exedy will handle 185 wtq for a long time, guaranteed. The actual gearset in the manual should be able to take around 400 ft-lbs tq (540Nm) before there is real risk. That seems to be the consensus.

I have a rather large pile of quickly growing transmissions that would say otherwise. Any power level that requires a clutch upgrade to hold is putting the transmission at serious risk.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Are you saying the stock gearbox is rated for 250 Newton-Meters or 185 tq? The stock clutch could probably handle that for a long time. A Stage 1 Exedy will handle 185 wtq for a long time, guaranteed. The actual gearset in the manual should be able to take around 400 ft-lbs tq (540Nm) before there is real risk. That seems to be the consensus.

From manufacturer

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I have a rather large pile of quickly growing transmissions that would say otherwise. Any power level that requires a clutch upgrade to hold is putting the transmission at serious risk.

I'm not surprised with 38 track days at 450hp. Let me guess, beginner group? Ya, probably not.

I misspoke. I was thinking 400hp, not torque, was the common consensus, but that would mean like 300ish tq. I'm sure someone can break the stock transmission just like they break the stock engine when NA.

Saying any power level that requires a clutch upgrade... What do you consider requires? The stock clutch might handle who knows how much torque for a few dyno pulls. Can you clarify? Do you mean for the life of the car or for at least a few years? The stock clutch is not rated very high. I have the Exedy Stage 1 which is essentially just a pressure plate upgrade and is rated to hold like 205 tq, but the consensus is it holds much higher. I'm at 13 psi, and the clutch is holding fine, and so it the gearbox. You are saying I didn't need to upgrade the clutch, or are you saying that since I did, I am putting the transmission at serious risk?

Does it matter that I likely don't see the low end torque that your turbo'ed 86 does, let alone the same absolute level of torque?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

From manufacturer

So 35+ tq is all the transmission will be able to handle?