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08-04-2016, 01:30 PM | #15 |
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I don't think they are, though. I think they're rewarding their customer base. The customer base that buys their truly top end vehicles. They've basically built the 911R as a thank you to those customers. They know the customer who is shopping for a CPO Cayman won't be looking at a Cayman GT4, or the customer debating between a 911C2 or a 911C4 isn't going to look at a 911TTS or GT3RS. Each level has its own top of the line and its own rewards.
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08-04-2016, 02:44 PM | #16 |
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yeah its pretty much a thank you to customers staying with them. Ferrari does the same thing. If I tried to get a new 488 or F12 at sticker today they would just say no sorry you bought a used Ferrari, buy a new California and then we'll talk about a 488. Just to get on the list for a LaFerrari you have to have had a serious collection with cars that you bought new from Ferrari.
But hey once you are on that list you are golden. LaFerraris are selling for like what 2-3 million over msrp these days?
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08-04-2016, 03:38 PM | #17 | |
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Such cars are image makers for the companies. They know exactly what they are doing. They are not interested to sell these cars to the masses. They just want to make happy some loyal customers and at the same time have some enthusiasts with the brand. It is pretty much the same with the STi limited edition cars in Japan.
The latest is even more clear in the quote of mav1178's : Quote:
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08-04-2016, 04:19 PM | #18 |
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Well there's your problem right there.
I can't say I speak for the brand either but here's a pretty good idea of what they're about: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PAH3.DE?ltr=1 People cried the sky is falling when Porsche came out with a water cooled 911 and Boxster. People cried when the Cayenne came out. People cried when the Panamera came out. People cried when the Macan came out. People cried for the turbo power plants replacing the n/a flat sixes. People cry when they make limited run special edition cars. People will cry when the Mission E comes out. And behind everything, Porsche engineer's and bean counters continue to make great cars available - both accessible and wall poster material... but people love to cry. It's a good thing you aren't a Ferrari fan! (just poking fun, no harm intended). James, I am feeling empathetic though - modern cars are so expensive in general the barrier to entry is ridiculously high. So much so that traditional financing terms have increased substantially. I get that a car is typically the second most expensive purchase after a house but with wage stallment and vehicle class growth it's unbearable for many, myself included, to enjoy the icons. I wonder if it's always been like that.. Was the Ford GT 350 back in they day equivalent to today's price (~$60k)? I know entry cars have gotten cheaper in general due to manufacturing efficiency, global market leveraging, and more sophisticated accounting.. but I don't know - are special cars just as inaccessible as they always have been? The solace is the used market, ya know. So many 'super cars' are seemingly available at a massively discounted rate. I don't think that was as common back in the day due to the wage disparity being higher (no?). In other words, a Viper, S class, XLR or Lamborghini, due to volume (supply/demand) is far more attainable on the second hand market than a Packard, Grosse or Lamborghini was in the 60's. That's a hunch though, no numbers to back it. Also the depreciation rate feels much more rampant - so you can get into newer models quicker due to accelerated depreciation. That's how I managed to get into my 997. Granted, service costs don't change much! |
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08-04-2016, 04:25 PM | #19 |
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I want to buy my wife a Panamera to replace her BMW, but she doesn't like Porsche.
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08-04-2016, 05:41 PM | #20 |
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08-04-2016, 08:30 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
But I still somehow like both. |
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08-04-2016, 09:45 PM | #22 |
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My very favorite 991. Be still my beating heart.
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08-05-2016, 09:05 AM | #23 |
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Bloodlines
The evolution of the 911 has taken it on a very different path - obviously driven by technology, competition, culture, etc. Pretty much every 911 since 1999 is a different car - which isn't a bad thing, just different. I think if anything, Porsche draws a lot of flak from 'aficionados' because they created a design that basically endured for 35 years. I can't think of any other car manufacturer that has done that (albeit the car evolved quite a bit in 1990). Obviously driving experience between the two is going to be vastly different (both awesome), as will be the performance envelope. Now guess which one costs more by a huge margin? |
11-15-2016, 07:48 PM | #24 | |
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New Porsche 911 RSR Teased Ahead Of LA Debut
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02-04-2017, 11:22 PM | #25 |
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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqCQfuLtVxs"]Porsche 911 GT3 RS v Porsche 911 Turbo S | evo LEADERBOARD head to head - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKD2fNVP7kw"]New Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS tested | Autocar - YouTube[/ame] |
02-06-2017, 12:11 PM | #26 | |
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02-06-2017, 01:54 PM | #27 | |
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I think Porsche should have not been such cheapasses and cast a completely new small displacement 6 cylinder shortblock/head for the refresh with a maximum of 89mm bore (I guess that would be like 95mm bore spacing instead of the 108? or so the current engines have). Chopping 2 cylinders off then increasing the price was a bad move. Maybe a turbo 2.5L H6 for the S model, and then 4 cylinders on the base model, but discount the price on the base model. Or shrink the bores even more to get a 2.3L H6 on the base model. The 981 base engine had a crazy short 72.5mm stroke. They could shrink the bore to 85mm which would still be quite reasonable as far as heat conduction losses go. Those changes would reduce the weight and size of the engine by a huge amount. Last edited by serialk11r; 02-06-2017 at 02:10 PM. |
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02-06-2017, 11:47 PM | #28 | |
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I don't know what the profit margin differences are between models. From what I'm reading there's been a 1% decrease trend annually in profit margin, but total operating profit 'surged' 25% upward in 2016 and gross profits saw increases annually with a large hike in 2015. I'm under the impression they are all expensive and Porsche still has the best margins in the industry. To me they are pushing for greater market share in China and elsewhere where lower performance vehicles can make a bigger sales impact - and then allow for greater margin items (OPPPPPTTTIOOONNNSSSS!!!!!) to help out on top of 1) absorbing competition 2) expanding dealership network 3) investing for future brand loyalty/interest. Now they will focus on electrolytes and voodoo magic with plug-ins, Mission E and whatever else they come up with and infrastructure expansion while serving their Volkswagen overlords. I can't speak on behalf of the reception. Again, I'm under the impression everyone bemoans the loss of flat 6 music but succumb to the power and torque. All of the auto journalists I've read/seen like the 718 so far and it's objectively better in every way to its predecessor. A 718S does the Nurburgring as quick as a GT4 with equal rubber. That all being said give me a 3.8l Boxster Spyder all day every day in every way. |
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