How are Carbotech XP8's for AutoX?

[ansibe]

I use xp12/10 with OE rotors and have no trouble bedding on the track. First session, 10 minutes at 7/10 pace, cool off lap (2 min), park for 20-30 min, and I'm good to go. Bedding lasts about a week for me in DD (200 Km), then the squeal is back, but the 929 pad is pretty small so the noise is not that bad anyway.

I love carbotech. Zero fade, great pedal feel, and about 12 track days durability for me. The dust seems completely benign as well - Hawks seem to eat wheels if you don't clean them up right away.

[Black Tire]

Originally Posted by drewbot

It is literally illegal to actually try bed these things on the street....granted we don't have swooping canyon runs up here

I'm glad I don't live where you live. I generally have used the road in front of the Sheriff's office near my home.

[Keenercarguy]

@CSG Mike Xp8's a slap on-and-go right? If I upgrade to them from stock pads I don't need to resurface my rotors… Right?

[ansibe]

I realize you're asking CSGMike, but I'll throw my two cents in ...

I don't think any pad should be thrown on without a bit of forethought. The transfer layer from the old pads (OE in your case) needs to be compatible with the new pad (XP8). If they're not compatible, there's a very good chance you'll get uneven transfer from the new pad, and have a nasty vibration when braking hard. You could resurface the rotors to remove the old transfer layer, but I don't think you need to.

Pad material is only transferred when the brakes are hot. On the street, your brakes will (should?) never get hot enough to transfer material, and at low temperatures the XP pads are abrasive. Over time (say 150 miles of DD) the XP pads will scrape away the old transfer layer on your discs. At that point you can hit the track and enjoy vibration and fade free braking. FWIW, CT's 1521 compound is compatible with their XP compound, so you can switch back and forth whenever you want.

I've made this mistake before: threw a new set of track pads onto my car (over the OE transfer layer) , and went straight to the track. The old transfer layer and new pad materials were incompatible, and the resulting brake vibration was so bad I could not drive.

[Keenercarguy]

Thanks x10 @ansibe
So essentially, don't go straight into bedding the brakes, rather, give them time to remove the remains of the old brakes and THEN bed them. I.e. allow the carbotechs to semi-resurface (with much squeaking) the rotors on their own?
The main reason I tagged @CSG Mike was because I remembered one of the CSG guys mentioning that they just threw on most pads for testing. I swear it was in the track thread but I can't remember.
And yeah I was actually planning on eventually buying bobcats (1521's) for street use! I might swap out my WRX rear sway bar for an adjustable one first though.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

@CSG Mike Xp8's a slap on-and-go right? If I upgrade to them from stock pads I don't need to resurface my rotors… Right?

Sort of, yes.

Your braking ability will be compromised until the mating and bedding is complete.

Remember, the rotors are slightly grooved, whereas a new pad is flat, in addition to the different transfer compounds.

If possible, bed the brakes in beforehand.

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Sort of, yes.

Your braking ability will be compromised until the mating and bedding is complete.

Remember, the rotors are slightly grooved, whereas a new pad is flat, in addition to the different transfer compounds.

If possible, bed the brakes in beforehand.

And if I can't bed them in before hand then just be careful I suppose? Do a light road trip through the mountains at a comfortable pace to mate them and then bed them down the mountain?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

And if I can't bed them in before hand then just be careful I suppose? Do a light road trip through the mountains at a comfortable pace to mate them and then bed them down the mountain?

Just brake normally on the way to the track, or put them on a few days beforehand, and drive like normal. You'll know the surfaces are mated when it starts screeching. You'll know it's bedded when the screeching goes away.

http://counterspacegarage.com/ct-xp8-brz-frs-front.html

[Cole]

Hey, @CSG Mike I'm sure this has been addressed many times before, but I don't feel like going through a bunch of threads at the moment.

Basically, I'm going to be starting my first "competitive" driving this coming year. Mostly planning on doing as many autox events as I can, possibly a couple track days. What kind of pads should I be looking into? Are the stock ones good enough for handling that? What about the TRDs? I'm not looking to spend a small fortune, but I'd like to have something that can at least keep me in the game and at the same time, not hide my mistakes, if that makes sense or if there's even an option that can do that.

Edit: I guess I should also mention that while this car isn't exactly a daily, there's a possibility that it could see around 1200km a week of driving, depending on if I decide to take my truck or the FRS to work.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Cole

Hey, @CSG Mike I'm sure this has been addressed many times before, but I don't feel like going through a bunch of threads at the moment.

Basically, I'm going to be starting my first "competitive" driving this coming year. Mostly planning on doing as many autox events as I can, possibly a couple track days. What kind of pads should I be looking into? Are the stock ones good enough for handling that? What about the TRDs? I'm not looking to spend a small fortune, but I'd like to have something that can at least keep me in the game and at the same time, not hide my mistakes, if that makes sense or if there's even an option that can do that.

Edit: I guess I should also mention that while this car isn't exactly a daily, there's a possibility that it could see around 1200km a week of driving, depending on if I decide to take my truck or the FRS to work.

A track pad will work AutoXing, and an AutoX pad could work at the track. Here's the thing:

If you want a "one size fits all", get an entry level track pad (XP10, Projet Mu Club Racer, Winmax W5), and it'll work perfectly fine on the street or AutoXing, but you'll probably have some noise and a lot of dust.

You could AutoX on your stock pad, and track on AutoX pads, but you'll quickly outgrow the pads, if your rate of improvement is at least on-par with the average.

If you're *SURE* you will track, then get track pads, front/rear, and some upgraded brake fluids, and use that.

If you're NOT sure, then stick to the OEM pad for now, and upgrade accordingly later.

If you find this post useful, purchase from CSG!

[Cole]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A track pad will work AutoXing, and an AutoX pad could work at the track. Here's the thing:

If you want a "one size fits all", get an entry level track pad (XP10, Projet Mu Club Racer, Winmax W5), and it'll work perfectly fine on the street or AutoXing, but you'll probably have some noise and a lot of dust.

You could AutoX on your stock pad, and track on AutoX pads, but you'll quickly outgrow the pads, if your rate of improvement is at least on-par with the average.

If you're *SURE* you will track, then get track pads, front/rear, and some upgraded brake fluids, and use that.

If you're NOT sure, then stick to the OEM pad for now, and upgrade accordingly later.

If you find this post useful, purchase from CSG!

Sounds good to me. I don't see myself tracking all that often, but it is definitely an option. I'll look into some autox pads and do some price comparisons.

While I love the level of support you offer, the Canadian dollar is just so weak (It's even projected to fall below 60 cents on the USD in 2016, thanks a lot, oil) that unless I can get a killer deal through a US vendor, I literally cannot afford it between the exchange rate, shipping and import duties.

Thanks again for the help!

[ansibe]

I'm not here to contradict anyone's opinion, but I do not consider the Carbotech XP series as entry level. CT compounds work at different temperature levels, with the higher numbers effective at higher temps. As I mentioned, I went through a set of XP12s (front) in about two seasons, using the OE discs and tires. No fade, plenty of dust, squeal on the street. My rear XP10 have about 60% left. This combo was recommended by Carbotech, and I think it works pretty well. They work fine on the street if you can deal with the dust and noise (I can).

I started thinking "track pads" were unnecessary on a light, low power car like the BRZ ... so I put the OE pads back in and went to Shannonville. Holy crap, huge mistake! They faded by the end of the first lap, and I wore about 80% off the front pads in one day. When I took them out after the event, they were a charred grey colour - I think they were on fire at some point! I won't do that again.

I really like my Carbotechs, but I've heard lots of good things about Ferodo DS2500s and EBC Yellowstuff. I also used Performance Friction Z Rated pads on an e92 m3 with good results. I would recommend any of those for dual use. I had a very bad experience with Hawk HP+, I wouldn't take a set of those at any price.

[ansibe]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Thanks x10 @ansibe
So essentially, don't go straight into bedding the brakes, rather, give them time to remove the remains of the old brakes and THEN bed them. I.e. allow the carbotechs to semi-resurface (with much squeaking) the rotors on their own?
The main reason I tagged @CSG Mike was because I remembered one of the CSG guys mentioning that they just threw on most pads for testing. I swear it was in the track thread but I can't remember.
And yeah I was actually planning on eventually buying bobcats (1521's) for street use! I might swap out my WRX rear sway bar for an adjustable one first though.

That's right, give the XP10 a chance to 'scrub' your rotors clean before you bed them in.

Just please remember, I'm not a brake engineer, or dealer. I just track my cars, and this is what I've discovered over about 15 years. It cost me a fortune in rotors and pads to correct my first mistake, and I don't see why anyone else should have to go through that!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ansibe

I'm not here to contradict anyone's opinion, but I do not consider the Carbotech XP series as entry level. CT compounds work at different temperature levels, with the higher numbers effective at higher temps. As I mentioned, I went through a set of XP12s (front) in about two seasons, using the OE discs and tires. No fade, plenty of dust, squeal on the street. My rear XP10 have about 60% left. This combo was recommended by Carbotech, and I think it works pretty well. They work fine on the street if you can deal with the dust and noise (I can).

I started thinking "track pads" were unnecessary on a light, gutless car like the BRZ ... so I put the OE pads back in and went to Shannonville. Holy crap, huge mistake! They faded by the end of the first lap, and I wore about 80% off the front pads in one day. When I took them out after the event, they were a charred grey colour - I think they were on fire at some point! I won't do that again.

I really like my Carbotechs, but I've heard lots of good things about Ferodo DS2500s and EBC Yellowstuff. I also used Performance Friction Z Rated pads on an e92 m3 with good results. I would recommend any of those for dual use. I had a very bad experience with Hawk HP+, I wouldn't take a set of those at any price.

Your scenario is the perfect example of "too much" vs "not enough".