Ej Swap

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Deadspool

You need to read more.

What? About direct injection seals burning up at any hint of knock and detonation? ...even a lot more likely to happen when you're trying to force induct a 12.5:1 compression motor. You better be running E85 which I don't care for because I can't get it, or have a perfectly spot on tune on pumpgas 93 octane. Even still, you're playing hot potatoes with a grenade.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by hmong337

What? About direct injection seals burning up at any hint of knock and detonation? ...even a lot more likely to happen when you're trying to force induct a 12.5:1 compression motor. You better be running E85 which I don't care for because I can't get it, or have a perfectly spot on tune on pumpgas 93 octane. Even still, you're playing hot potatoes with a grenade.

Read a bit more info on the seals, its not entirely about detonation. Its more a combination of sustained beating (read track), transient shifts, etc. It has nothing to do with adding FI. Stock cars, modified, etc, the big majority who have had the DI seals failure are tracked cars. Also, the failure rate on them is low, meaning not all tracked cars suffer it.

I honestly would not track this car until a few years have passed and we have some OE on what NEEDS to be upgraded for it to hold up.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Well, it all depends. Obviously there are things to be liked about the EJ motors. It also depends what is your expectations from it. An EJ motor can achieve 350 whp on "medium" boost (read about 20 psi), but the combination of cams and turbo it has has it falling off the face of the earth after hitting a peak torque at 4-5K RPMS.

FA20 motor can make from 300-350 on pump gas at around 12 psi and not fall off at higher RPM's. Powerband between both motors are quite different so I can see if you like that instant hit of torque how you would prefer an EJ motor. They have also proven to not be too reliable aside from adding a downpipe, intake and tune (on stock form). By contrast, slap a turbo kit on the FA20, put E85 on it and you see 400 + whp. This motor is still new and we don't know how it will hold up long term, but so far it seems to be doing ok considering it starts at 170 whp.

Lastly, the 12.5:1 compression ratio is the secret of this car. The CR coupled with the Direct Injection allows it to have a room to play that has not been seen much. Everyone's jaw drops when they hear you say "12.5 CR motor holding 20 psi of boost". It sounds crazy, but it is happening.

You're right on the powerband. The area under the curve always looks great with the FA20 when boosted with a small to medium turbo.

But I'm talking about longevity and ease of attaining horsepower. The EJ can do both of those things pretty easily. My goal is a good 350-400whp on pumpgas 93octane. The FA20 can't do that for me without doing a costly built motor; on top of the turbo kit I'd have to buy $$$!

The EJ already comes turbo and can lay down 250whp with just the swap! You need like a $5000 turbo kit just to get that from the FA20.

[Deadspool]

Originally Posted by hmong337

What? About direct injection seals burning up at any hint of knock and detonation? ...even a lot more likely to happen when you're trying to force induct a 12.5:1 compression motor. You better be running E85 which I don't care for because I can't get it, or have a perfectly spot on tune on pumpgas 93 octane. Even still, you're playing hot potatoes with a grenade.

All of my cars have used 91 Canadian piss gas since the day I could hold a wrench, dont talk to me about the risks of shitty fuel.

I dont think you fully understand the FA20. You need to read more because right now the only thing you're spouting off is the hype that everyone else throws around.

"oh no, high compression is bad"

"the FA20 explodes every time it hits boost because DI seals shoot down aircraft"

You want to talk engine failures to ignition? Go sign up on the RX7 forums, and see how they like apex seals leaving out thier tail pipes.

You need to be more informed before you repeat what others have told you. Hype isnt everything, knowledge is.

You should be reading about the mulitpul 300+ daily drivers, and the daily driven 604 whp unit Fullblown STILL hasnt managed to blow up.

Get a grip and do some research.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Read a bit more info on the seals, its not entirely about detonation. Its more a combination of sustained beating (read track), transient shifts, etc. It has nothing to do with adding FI. Stock cars, modified, etc, the big majority who have had the DI seals failure are tracked cars. Also, the failure rate on them is low, meaning not all tracked cars suffer it.

I honestly would not track this car until a few years have passed and we have some OE on what NEEDS to be upgraded for it to hold up.

I understand the DI failures with the stock tune.

But heat from detonation is what cooks the seals. Detonation is detonation no matter your transient shifts, high IAT, etc. Seems like the seals can get cooked easily if you're not careful.

The EJ does not concern seals.

[ramiram1984]

Originally Posted by Deadspool

All of my cars have used 91 Canadian piss gas since the day I could hold a wrench, dont talk to me about the risks of shitty fuel.

I dont think you fully understand the FA20. You need to read more because right now the only thing you're spouting off is the hype that everyone else throws around.

"oh no, high compression is bad"

"the FA20 explodes every time it hits boost because DI seals shoot down aircraft"

You want to talk engine failures to ignition? Go sign up on the RX7 forums, and see how they like apex seals leaving out thier tail pipes.

You need to be more informed before you repeat what others have told you. Hype isnt everything, knowledge is.

You should be reading about the mulitpul 300+ daily drivers, and the daily driven 604 whp unit Fullblown STILL hasnt managed to blow up.

Get a grip and do some research.

My cousin's 89 RX7 GTU had over 220K miles and was his DD to and from work/play with the commute being over 50 miles and in hilly roads.
Thing ran like brand new.
Just depends how you used and took care of your car.
Some RX7s wouldn't even see 80K miles and already needed a new 13B.

I sold my 91 RX7 with 107K miles and still a champ.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by hmong337

You're right on the powerband. The area under the curve always looks great with the FA20 when boosted with a small to medium turbo.

But I'm talking about longevity and ease of attaining horsepower. The EJ can do both of those things pretty easily. My goal is a good 350-400whp on pumpgas 93octane. The FA20 can't do that for me without doing a costly built motor; on top of the turbo kit I'd have to buy $$$!

The EJ already comes turbo and can lay down 250whp with just the swap! You need like a $5000 turbo kit just to get that from the FA20.

Read a bit more on this. Local Subaru club 50+ cars all tuned by renowned Subaru tuner Mikey Botti are all told to stay BELOW 320 whp (for 93 gas) 360 (for E85) if they want to have a reliable car. Words written by Mikey himself. Mikey also says to stay safe, need to go EL Headers. I think you need to read up a bit more on what the EJ motor is and what its failures are. It's not pretty. Just yesterday there was one suffering ringland failure on his car.

They talk about building motors and being at 450 WHP.... I'm sorry but that is a joke IMHO.

Originally Posted by hmong337

I understand the DI failures with the stock tune.

But heat from detonation is what cooks the seals. Detonation is detonation no matter your transient shifts, high IAT, etc. Seems like the seals can get cooked easily if you're not careful.

The EJ does not concern seals.

No one really KNOWS for a fact what causes the seals to burn. If it were exclusively and only detonation, my car would have gone through a few sets of them, as I was turboed and on a tune that knocked BAD for a few months and they are like new right now.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Deadspool

All of my cars have used 91 Canadian piss gas since the day I could hold a wrench, dont talk to me about the risks of shitty fuel.

I dont think you fully understand the FA20. You need to read more because right now the only thing you're spouting off is the hype that everyone else throws around.

"oh no, high compression is bad"

"the FA20 explodes every time it hits boost because DI seals shoot down aircraft"

You want to talk engine failures to ignition? Go sign up on the RX7 forums, and see how they like apex seals leaving out thier tail pipes.

You need to be more informed before you repeat what others have told you. Hype isnt everything, knowledge is.

You should be reading about the mulitpul 300+ daily drivers, and the daily driven 604 whp unit Fullblown STILL hasnt managed to blow up.

Get a grip and do some research.

Butt hurt?

I've been following quite extensively mind you. How about you high boost your FA20 with that sucky 91 octane and tell us about it.

High compression and turbo isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's great for off boost drivability and good area under. But you're limited to how much power you can make.

I have no care for e85 so get off that ride. You shouldn't either as you're in Canada and can't even get it too.

I just can't see the FA20 providing 350+whp on pumpgas 93 reliably without having to do a full low compression build. Tell me otherwise. I'd be happy to listen................

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Butt hurt?

I've been following quite extensively mind you. How about you high boost your FA20 with that sucky 91 octane and tell us about it.

High compression and turbo isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's great for off boost drivability and good area under. But you're limited to how much power you can make.

I have no care for e85 so get off that ride. You shouldn't either as you're in Canada and can't even get it too.

I just can't see the FA20 providing 350+whp on pumpgas 93 reliably without having to do a full low compression build. Tell me otherwise. I'd be happy to listen................

Is 350 WHP such a big sticking point? I can show you a 16K Turbo FA20 putting down 325 on 93 gas.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Read a bit more on this. Local Subaru club 50+ cars all tuned by renowned Subaru tuner Mikey Botti are all told to stay BELOW 350 whp if they want to have a reliable car. Words written by Mikey himself. Mikey also says to stay safe, need to go EL Headers. I think you need to read up a bit more on what the EJ motor is and what its failures are. It's not pretty. Just yesterday there was one suffering ringland failure on his car.




No one really KNOWS for a fact what causes the seals to burn. If it were exclusively and only detonation, my car would have gone through a few sets of them, as I was turboed and on a tune that knocked BAD for a few months and they are like new right now.

Okay great. But that still doesn't hide the fact that you're getting a turbo engine right outta gate. The JDM motors EJ205 seems like the bulletproof one from what I've searched. The EJ257 STi engines seem to be the ones with issues. But I've got a buddy with an 05 STi with a gt30r and another with an 04 Forester with an STi swap w/ gt30r all running great for the last few years on stock motors both making north of 350whp and both cars see hard use... still fine.

The DI seals just need a good tune to keep them safe from what I gather.

Personally, I feel that around 280-300whp is a good place to stop with the stock FA20 when boosted on 93 octane. Sure you can make tons more... but at the price of reliability/longevity.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Is 350 WHP such a big sticking point? I can show you a 16K Turbo FA20 putting down 325 on 93 gas.

Dynosty did it......................

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Okay great. But that still doesn't hide the fact that you're getting a turbo engine right outta gate. The JDM motors EJ205 seems like the bulletproof one from what I've searched. The EJ257 STi engines seem to be the ones with issues. But I've got a buddy with an 05 STi with a gt30r and another with an 04 Forester with an STi swap w/ gt30r all running great for the last few years on stock motors both making north of 350whp and both cars see hard use... still fine.

The DI seals just need a good tune to keep them safe from what I gather.

Personally, I feel that around 280-300whp is a good place to stop with the stock FA20 when boosted on 93 octane. Sure you can make tons more... but at the price of reliability/longevity.

Ok, Fair enough. Looking forward to your build if you ever get to it.

There's a few current 86's cars north of 300 whp and thousands of mile on them, but its besides the point. You get points too for trying to be different. I respect that.

[The Slow One]

Honestly, to get all the electronics to work with the EJ engine would be a total headache in itself. If you want it to be street driven, then you would need a 2013+ EJ engine that's US compliant. Then following up doing all the legal paperwork.. I would rather just spend the little extra and just pay for a turbo/supercharger kit. 300+hp is already enough to kill the bmw e90 m3's and chipped 335i's, just saying.

[jamesm]

an ej swap isn't anywhere near worth the pita it would be to execute. kind of a step backwards, really in terms of technology and all that. the only benefit is it's better known, but that's just because it's old.