Good News Concerning the D4-S Boxer!

[Shevon]

K i am not familiar with boxer engines what is the difference between UEL headers and El headers and what they all about. aal i know is impreza?sti sound like its choking or sputtering.

[scape]

i would hope it sounds tight and responsive, that's the sign of a well engineered piece of machinery, to me atleast.

it sounded great in the tokyo show

[YourFearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by Shevon

K i am not familiar with boxer engines what is the difference between UEL headers and El headers and what they all about. aal i know is impreza?sti sound like its choking or sputtering.

UEL - unequal length header

EL - Equal Length header

a UEL manifold is *usually* cheaper to produce, however, an EL header will make more power per PSI that the turbo is spooling. The UEL is are also famous for their "subaru rumble".

However, for the application that subaru is using it in, I dont think we will see an EL header, based on cost/HP. Yes, the EL will make more power, but EL manifolds usually tend to cost a lot more money.

[Franisco]

Unequal:

Equal:

You have to take into account that these aren't the same exact engines, but the one with the equal length headers is much smoother sounding. As they said above, like an inline-4.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

UEL - unequal length header

EL - Equal Length header

a UEL manifold is *usually* cheaper to produce, however, an EL header will make more power per PSI that the turbo is spooling. The UEL is are also famous for their "subaru rumble".

However, for the application that subaru is using it in, I dont think we will see an EL header, based on cost/HP. Yes, the EL will make more power, but EL manifolds usually tend to cost a lot more money.

Huh why? All the Subie boxer engine come with EL header stock. UEL header is after market part (like my Subie).

And correct in the EL header in Turbo. In NA, they don't make difference. EL header doesn't make more HP than UEL and vis versa. It's just the maker's quality that makes the header HP difference.

[Shevon]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

UEL - unequal length header

EL - Equal Length header

a UEL manifold is *usually* cheaper to produce, however, an EL header will make more power per PSI that the turbo is spooling. The UEL is are also famous for their "subaru rumble".

However, for the application that subaru is using it in, I dont think we will see an EL header, based on cost/HP. Yes, the EL will make more power, but EL manifolds usually tend to cost a lot more money.

k thanks bro

[S2KtoFT86]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

To each their own.

Need more people to respond to this. I think Toyota fans are severely outnumbered by boxer junkies on these forums.

I have no idea what either is supposed to sound like. I'm a VTEC junkie so that's pretty much all I know.

[OldSkoolToys]

Hahaha, my point was proven. This turned from a topic concerning the engine sound and its characteristics into a boxer engine header discussion.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by S2KtoFT86

I have no idea what either is supposed to sound like. I'm a VTEC junkie so that's pretty much all I know.

Oh yeah, V-TEC. Quite similar to my cars T-VIS system. You can even hear the note change when the butterflies open (4200rpm).

Yeah, that system that Toyota came out with ~8 years before Honda. *cough*

Sorry, I rub it in every VTEC fans face.

[Shevon]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Oh yeah, V-TEC. Quite similar to my cars T-VIS system. You can even hear the note change when the butterflies open (4200rpm).

Yeah, that system that Toyota came out with ~8 years before Honda. *cough*

Sorry, I rub it in every VTEC fans face.

I'm still hoping for a high rpm motor with something simular to i-vtec or vvtl-i

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Oh yeah, V-TEC. Quite similar to my cars T-VIS system. You can even hear the note change when the butterflies open (4200rpm).

Yeah, that system that Toyota came out with ~8 years before Honda. *cough*

Sorry, I rub it in every VTEC fans face.

Really, I thoght Mitsubishi was the first (MIVEC). Hm... I learned something new.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

huh? EL header and UEL head has almost no difference in HP/TQ. In turbo is waste of money to make UEL header, cuz of turbo.

IIRC in NA, UEL header had power in the low end, while EL has power in high end. EL or UEL, it all depends in if you want the boxer engine sound and which one you want the power in Low or High end.

I know English is not your first language, but I still don't understand what you're trying to say here. With a boosted EJ2x, there *is* a power difference between EL and UEL header, and in the case of performance, it's EL > UEL.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Turbo, there's no point making an UEL header. It's just waste of money.

This is what I also said; that I didn't see the point in spending money in a useless part.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

All the Subie boxer engine come with EL header stock. UEL header is after market part (like my Subie).

Incorrect. WRXs and STIs come stock with an UEL.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

And correct in the EL header in Turbo. In NA, they don't make difference. EL header doesn't make more HP than UEL and vis versa. It's just the maker's quality that makes the header HP difference.

Again, this is what I was eluding to in my original post.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Really, I thoght Mitsubishi was the first (MIVEC). Hm... I learned something new.

T-VIS was introduced with the 4A-GE found in the, you guessed it, AE86, back in 1983. Thats a good 9 years before MIVEC.

Its just something I say to people that bring up VTEC all the time (not a shot at you S2K). The systems pretty much provide the same end result (a smoother powerband) but in much different ways. The real Toyota version of VTEC is actually, of course, VVTL-i. T-VIS actually doesn't have anything to do with the valves. It involves messing around with the intake runners via a butterfly valve system.

I'm certainly not an engineer so please look up all the information if you want, I could be wrong on some points. But I'm pretty sure I got the basics of the setup.

Actually TVIS was developed to improve low-end torque, whereas VTEC was made to improve high end power, if I'm not mistaken?

[Gost]

Originally Posted by S2KtoFT86

I have no idea what either is supposed to sound like. I'm a VTEC junkie so that's pretty much all I know.

Unfortunately, I'm really unhappy with the direction Honda/Acura has been heading which is why I'm looking elsewhere for my next car. Unless I happen to find a really good condition Integra GSR/TypeR somewhere. Highly unlikely since people around my way beat the shit out of their cars.