Downshift vs neutral roll

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by lukey86

Hard driving, launching, riding the clutch etc will shorten the life of your clutch for sure, but sensible driving including downshifting and your clutch will last a lot longer than you'll own the car. Unless you own a wrx, never met a Rex owner who hasn't changed at least one clutch lol


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Of the twenty MT car I have owned I replaced the clutch in one (due to failure) that was a 1958 Ford and it was 1993 so I won't take the blame on that failure.
My last 4 modern cars (a DSM and 3 Mitsus) were all traded in at around 300K miles and still all had perfectly functioning clutches. I do not drive "sensible" all the time but don't beat the crap out of my clutch and tranny either.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Clutch?

You mean the word that doesn't exist in an auto owner's dictionary?


(being totally facetious here)

Auto owners ideas of a "clutch".

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by lukey86

A WRX clutch has to deliver power to twice the amount of wheels which means twice the strain on the clutch and the majority of WRX's out there are driven twice as hard as a normal car...Life as a WRX clutch tends to be short and violent lol

Best description ever!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

Down shifting puts extra wear on the clutch and brakes are much cheaper to change than the clutch. I myself love downshifting but be prepared to go through clutches much faster.

Bull! There is no more strain put on a clutch by downshifting then there is up shifting. Not sure when this myth came about but believe it coincides with the invention of the internet. The clutch is designed to do both not just one.


People have the same thoughts about engine braking. "You are putting strain on it". The strain of braking revs is worse that the strain of acceleration revs? How does that work?

[seito23]

Wow, a hilariously satisfying read, this one. 16 Pages, that is commitment to the craft(s), humor and driving

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Bull! There is no more strain put on a clutch by downshifting then there is up shifting. Not sure when this myth came about but believe it coincides with the invention of the internet. The clutch is designed to do both not just one.


People have the same thoughts about engine braking. "You are putting strain on it". The strain of braking revs is worse that the strain of acceleration revs? How does that work?

I get my information from my father who has been a mechanic for over 40 years. He owned a shop on Las Olas in Fort Lauderdale and worked on all kinds of high performance cars. Ferrari's, Lambo's, Royles Royces...... He even worked on the first cars used in Miami Vice for those of you who remember. They used a black car before switching to the white ferrari. The more you use anything in general the more wear it takes. No matter what it is. I am not saying downshifting is worse than upshifting. It wears the same either way.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I get my information from my father who has been a mechanic for over 40 years. He owned a shop on Las Olas in Fort Lauderdale and worked on all kinds of high performance cars. Ferrari's, Lambo's, Royles Royces...... He even worked on the first cars used in Miami Vice for those of you who remember. They used a black car before switching to the white ferrari. The more you use anything in general the more wear it takes. No matter what it is. I am not saying downshifting is worse than upshifting. It wears the same either way.

While it does wear due to more use in a general sense, if you engage the clutch when the input/output shafts are in sync, the wear will be negligible whether the shifting is up or down.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I get my information from my father who has been a mechanic for over 40 years. He owned a shop on Las Olas in Fort Lauderdale and worked on all kinds of high performance cars. Ferrari's, Lambo's, Royles Royces...... He even worked on the first cars used in Miami Vice for those of you who remember. They used a black car before switching to the white ferrari. The more you use anything in general the more wear it takes. No matter what it is. I am not saying downshifting is worse than upshifting. It wears the same either way.

So by not downshifting you save a day on your clutch's life then. Not the "go through clutches much faster" you said before.


The whole "brakes are cheaper than clutches" things is just plain silly since both are wear items but the clutch should outlast the brakes by many times over if you don't abuse it.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So by not downshifting you save a day on your clutch's life then. Not the "go through clutches much faster" you said before.


The whole "brakes are cheaper than clutches" things is just plain silly since both are wear items but the clutch should outlast the brakes by many times over if you don't abuse it.

For us older people we dont abuse it. But the majority of people who drive this car will abuse the clutch. I know I did when I was younger and stupid.

I went through 2 clutches on my 93 Mustang GT in 5 years.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Bull! There is no more strain put on a clutch by downshifting then there is up shifting. Not sure when this myth came about but believe it coincides with the invention of the internet. The clutch is designed to do both not just one.

I think the difference isn't in the function, but in the application and in the application of the average driver.

Most folks aren't rev matching or double clutching, therefore on a downshift the clutch is speeding up an engine, whereas on an upshift it's slowing it down. The friction disk is being applied to retard or accelerate what is essentially a compressor. The requirement in force to slow down an off-throttle engine is much less than to accelerate one.

To compound this, on a down shift, the clutch re-engagement is generally slower for your typical driver so the delta between where the revs are when the clutch is disengaged to where the revs are when the clutch is re-engaged is greater, aka: even more work.

[pushrod]

LOL, I remember this epic thread. Glad to see the opinions are still trickling in.

Here's what the 1992 Ford F-Series owner's manual has to say about all this:

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

For us older people we dont abuse it. But the majority of people who drive this car will abuse the clutch. I know I did when I was younger and stupid.

I went through 2 clutches on my 93 Mustang GT in 5 years.

Ya but will abuse on both the up and down.
Most of my younger day cars fell apart around me and left a perfectly good clutch laying on the ground!
Strangely enough the two most powerful vehicles I had were autos (full Hurst shift kits of course) though.

[rice_classic]

So the moral of the story and 16 pages is:

You can do it wrong, or you can do it right and there's more than one way to do either.


edit: who cares.. our Throw out bearings will fail every 50k anyway. Just replace your clutch then.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

So the moral of the story and 16 pages is:

You can it wrong, or you can do it right and there's more than one way to do either.


edit: who cares.. our Throw out bearings will fail every 50k anyway. Just replace your clutch then.

lol