Toyota FT-86 II Concept to be unveiled at Geneva!!!

[Terrari]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i don't know how safety features add this much weight either but the numbers don't lie, it's an industry wide trend.

In 1985, the US spec MR2 weighed 2350 lbs, and the Euro spec weighed 2232 lb. All the difference was in safety features such as door beams, heavier bumpers behind the cosmetic bumpers, etc. The US front bumper bar weighed in excess of 50 lbs alone.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I don't think it's just the safety features that are adding the weight, extra versatility (read: extra boot space, extra leg/head room), along with better/beefier sounds systems, heavier, more comfortable, electrically adjustable seats, etc. all add extra weight. I think the FT could easily pull off it's 2700-2800lb target weight if some of these amenities were reduced or removed. All the extra electronics compared to the early 90's add a heap more weight.

No, amenities are not the main thing that drive up weight. $20k cars don't have electric seats. Beefier sound system doesn't add much weight unless there's a giant amp (and $20k cars don't have those). FR-S's boot space is tiny, and Japanese cars haven't gotten much better in head space over the years.

The main factor driving up weight is safety. Airbags are increasingly standard on seats, that adds maybe 20-30lbs per seat. Side impact crash standards become increasingly stringent. Compare a 90s Civic A-pillar to the new Civic and you'll notice a huge difference in thickness. Ditto for the B-pillar. More reinforcement in the doors. Side curtain airbags. You compare a new car's crash worthiness to something from 20 years back, there's a significant difference. All that adds up.

[djohnson]

The 90's civic 4 dr sedan was indeed around 600 lbs lighter than the Si 4 dr sedan is today. I'm not sure about the weight of the newer features, perhaps someone with experience can chime in. 2 Big features that I would think alter the weight greatly are - '95 Civic has 4 sp auto or 5 sp manual, no LSD. '11 Si Civic has 6 sp manual close-ratio trans and Helical LSD standard. Does anyone here know the weight of a LSD and/or difference between 5speed and 6 speed manual trans? I am also guessing that newer transmissions are also built heavier as today's engines typically have more power and torque than those from 10-20 years ago.

[cyde01]

i highly doubt that a 6 speed tranny or lsd would add significant weight compared to a 5 speed with standard diff... like aki said it's the huge a and b pillars, chassis reinforcement, additional airbags.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

But really, who are we kidding...

Safety at 120mph doesn't exist, except in driver skill.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Aki

No, amenities are not the main thing that drive up weight. $20k cars don't have electric seats. Beefier sound system doesn't add much weight unless there's a giant amp (and $20k cars don't have those). FR-S's boot space is tiny, and Japanese cars haven't gotten much better in head space over the years.

The main factor driving up weight is safety. Airbags are increasingly standard on seats, that adds maybe 20-30lbs per seat. Side impact crash standards become increasingly stringent. Compare a 90s Civic A-pillar to the new Civic and you'll notice a huge difference in thickness. Ditto for the B-pillar. More reinforcement in the doors. Side curtain airbags. You compare a new car's crash worthiness to something from 20 years back, there's a significant difference. All that adds up.

That's why it's call Japanese cars...

[Matador]

Originally Posted by djohnson

The 90's civic 4 dr sedan was indeed around 600 lbs lighter than the Si 4 dr sedan is today. I'm not sure about the weight of the newer features, perhaps someone with experience can chime in. 2 Big features that I would think alter the weight greatly are - '95 Civic has 4 sp auto or 5 sp manual, no LSD. '11 Si Civic has 6 sp manual close-ratio trans and Helical LSD standard. Does anyone here know the weight of a LSD and/or difference between 5speed and 6 speed manual trans? I am also guessing that newer transmissions are also built heavier as today's engines typically have more power and torque than those from 10-20 years ago.

Transmissions and engines are lighter today than ever, the extra weight is not from there.

[DantKR]

Most cars are much bigger than their early 90's version. I know my 98 2 door accord felt like 2x the size of my 92 2 door accord.

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Transmissions and engines are lighter today than ever, the extra weight is not from there.

sometimes. three people can easily lift my 3SGTE, add a fourth when it's bolted to the transmission. five of us absolutely could NOT lift a K24 out of a 2009 accord bolted to it's transmission. we could get lift it about an inch off the ground, and that was all.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by NESW20

sometimes. three people can easily lift my 3SGTE, add a fourth when it's bolted to the transmission. five of us absolutely could NOT lift a K24 out of a 2009 accord bolted to it's transmission. we could get lift it about an inch off the ground, and that was all.

That is engine and transmission. Try the same with your 3S bolted to an Auto tranny, and see if the result isn't the same.

Either way, Hondas suck . A Toyota UZ V8 is in the same weight range as a 3S.

[Chokonen888]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

That is engine and transmission. Try the same with your 3S bolted to an Auto tranny, and see if the result isn't the same.

Yep, auto tranny vs. manual is no comparison.

[NESW20]

trust me guys, that engine is no joke by itself. it weighs at least as much as my 3SGTE, and the K24 has an aluminum block.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by NESW20

trust me guys, that engine is no joke by itself. it weighs at least as much as my 3SGTE, and the K24 has an aluminum block.

K24's longer stroke = more crank material, and cranks are heavy. Plus a bit more block material for the extra height.

Plus there's probably a lot more stuff in the head too for all the VTEC stuff.

I believe it.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by NESW20

sometimes. three people can easily lift my 3SGTE, add a fourth when it's bolted to the transmission. five of us absolutely could NOT lift a K24 out of a 2009 accord bolted to it's transmission. we could get lift it about an inch off the ground, and that was all.

The difference in the Civic's weight over the years is not mainly due to the engine. A K20 adds maybe 100lbs over a D-series engine. K24 adds 20-ish lbs on top of that. A 3SGTE weighs about 100 lbs less than a K24 w/o tranny.

Swap a K20+six-speed into an older Civic, and it's still a good 300-400 lbs lighter than the new Civics. Side impact door beams, reinforced steel crossmembers are what do it, among lots of other safety additions.