Injector / seal failure or Miss-fire codes.. please post here

[DJCarbine]

Got my injector tools

[xjohnx]

3d scan?

[romin]

To recap:

My engine started popping in February.
I brought it to Subaru dealer #1 and they refused to look into the issue.
They said the noise was due to my mods.

I then brought it to Subaru dealer #2 with a video of my cold start popping sound, photos of other bad injectors, and even had the seals preorder so everything was ready to go. They also said there wasn't a problem and told me if I left the car there for a couple weeks maybe they would start it a few times and see if they could reproduce the sound. When I pushed the service adviser more he said it was likely due to my mods and probably wouldn't be covered under warranty. After one more follow up call that ended with the service advisor hanging up on me, I decided to fix the issue via a my own mechanic.

My mechanic pulled the engine apart and found exactly what we expected:





My cylinder #1 injector was so pitted that we couldn't even push a new seal on it using the "special tools". Every attempt resulted in a damaged seal. We ended up putting new seals on injectors #2, #3, and #4 but chose to completely replace injector #1.

From this we learned a few things:

These seals are very hard to replace without damaging them even when using the "special tools".
If you order a new injector they come with factory installed seals.
I therefore believe many of the technicians are damaging the new seals during warranty replacement which later results in another failure.
The "we're ordering you new special improved injectors" trick is just to avoid the manual seal replacement. They can just unwrap and plug them in.
I didn't see any difference in the seal on the ordered injector and the seals provided via Subaru parts.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

3d scan?

This ^

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Got my injector tools

[speed6 killah]

This really sucks look like you guys are going through the same problem mazdaspeed platform went through.
For my experience we nail it down to what was causing the problem.
Also have any of you guys try a different seal from a manufacture that have a similar design injector seal like VW,MAZDA,GM,FORD?

[vgi]

Originally Posted by Jeff86

I don't believe "it is figured out" can honestly be said yet. A culprit has been identified, yes, but the failing part in question I don't believe is a particularly good design. Seal failure for a variety of reasons is entirely possible.

agree. not until it's acknowledged by toyota/subaru and there is a fix which is proven to be working (yep, thinking about the hpfp crickets issue)

[Lonewolf]

It looks like the trend among many of these Subaru dealers is to blame mods without looking into the cause of so many of these issues. Whereas the Scion dealers seem to be handling it a little more professionally and diligently.

Well, if Subaru wants to play that game...it looks like one needs to go back to stock (unless you have a reasonable dealer) when you go get these injector seal/popping noises/other crap looked at under warranty...

Boo Subaru, boo for you....

[regal]

Originally Posted by rx3

What's interesting about this issue, is the fact that many seals apparently did survive when people doubled the output by going FI (which is only possible with more pressure and with it temperature in the combustion chamber).

Maybe it's simply a manufacturing clearance/fitting issue (the tolerances given to the manufacturer(s) of the seals are not tight enough or the dimensions from seal to seal vary too much in the manufacturing process).
Some seals simply have a looser fitting and those seals are now showing problems, since they can transmit less heat and can move more easily.

I really hope it isn't a head machining tolerance issue. If it is, the cost to Toyota/Subaru to replace cylinder heads would be huge and they would doubtfully ever acknowledge or deal with the issue proactively. Rather they would just keep changing o-rings till the warranty runs out.

I am hoping that the FI guys aren't seeing immediate issues because they are already very cooling/temperature conscience, meaning most have an oil cooler which could be helping the coil packs survive.

But the silence from Toyota and Subaru on the issue domestically is still down right depressing, like it isn't even on their radar and this issue is so much more serious than the little idle/cel issue from last year.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

It looks like the trend among many of these Subaru dealers is to blame mods without looking into the cause of so many of these issues. Whereas the Scion dealers seem to be handling it a little more professionally and diligently.

Well, if Subaru wants to play that game...it looks like one needs to go back to stock (unless you have a reasonable dealer) when you go get these injector seal/popping noises/other crap looked at under warranty...

Boo Subaru, boo for you....

I've said this in like 50 threads, but if you want warranty coverage on an issue which is not covered by a specific TSB/recall, Subaru isn't going to cover it for a modded vehicle. 99% of Subaru dealers have zero tolerance for modifications whether they have directly caused a failure or not. They have been through tons of warranty issues with the WRX/STi due to user abuse/mods/etc. they put everything through a very fine toothed comb.

As for the injector seal failure, I hope things get worked out and it is just an ECU tuning issue, but that seems a little fishy to me. There have been issues before however with lean conditions during high-rpm lift, so hopefully changing the mapping in those situations will work.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

It is figured out. What's wrong with you people? Desperate for something to chat shit about?

The forum THINKS it's figured out. Until it is acknowledged and confirmed, it's still just speculation.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

It looks like the trend among many of these Subaru dealers is to blame mods without looking into the cause of so many of these issues. Whereas the Scion dealers seem to be handling it a little more professionally and diligently.

Well, if Subaru wants to play that game...it looks like one needs to go back to stock (unless you have a reasonable dealer) when you go get these injector seal/popping noises/other crap looked at under warranty...

Boo Subaru, boo for you....

It's not a dealer issue. It's a Subaru of America/Tech line issue. The dealers cannot perform warranty work without SoA/tech line's approval/authorization. Otherwise, the dealer is doing the work for free.

[RAWR BRZ]

I got my ecu updated too but I believe it has nothing to do with the transient timing but for coolant reading levels or something. My dealer replaced all four injectors and gaskets etc. took a bit of a fight but they did it PM me if you want more info.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's not a dealer issue. It's a Subaru of America/Tech line issue. The dealers cannot perform warranty work without SoA/tech line's approval/authorization. Otherwise, the dealer is doing the work for free.

Boo for the SOA Tech Line!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RAWR BRZ

I got my ecu updated too but I believe it has nothing to do with the transient timing but for coolant reading levels or something. My dealer replaced all four injectors and gaskets etc. took a bit of a fight but they did it PM me if you want more info.

I really wish our original records were there