200hp / 2700lbs - Really?

[blur]

Originally Posted by dominican

I hope it is about 200hp with the quoted 2700 pound weight. However, it's difficult to believe that it'll stay that low in weight. I own a Honda prelude, the 1998 model (BB6) and it weighs about 3k pounds. It's a smallish car, very rigid structure, and it doesn't have all of the extra safety features forced by today's law. It is also FWD, not RWD, which keeps weight down as well. Because of this, I don't know how they can keep this car at 2700 pounds, and keep the price low at the same time. I really hope that they pull it off.

That's because your car is a pig compared to this car. As is mine. Look at the last gen celica.. curb weight ~2500 lbs. S2000 with convertible crap ~2800 lbs. Its very possible this car in track spec could be in the low 2600 lbs, stock, and into the 2500s with some basic weight reduction such as crash bar and spare +kit removal.

Then again, the safety scion police could come and ruin it for everyone lol.

[dominican]

Originally Posted by blur

That's because your car is a pig compared to this car. As is mine. Look at the last gen celica.. curb weight ~2500 lbs. S2000 with convertible crap ~2800 lbs. Its very possible this car in track spec could be in the low 2600 lbs, stock, and into the 2500s with some basic weight reduction such as crash bar and spare +kit removal.

Then again, the safety scion police could come and ruin it for everyone lol.

The Prelude is indeed a little pigglet, not sure why it's so heavy. Good to note that even while weighing so much, 200HP is still enough to have a lot of fun on and off the track. If they really can pull it off, and have a nice free revving boxer engine in it, I will be VERY happy.

[dominican]

Also a lot of people are talking about how the boxer engine is a slap in the face because it's not Yamaha derived. While I agree that Yamaha makes awesome engines (and audio equipment), one of the main things that attracted me to the FT-86 was the fact that the subie boxer engine is being used. I love the boxer engine configuration, it makes for a much lower center of gravity and horizontally apposed cylinders help balance the engine, making it more efficient. They are used on Porsches and Subies, and the sound they make is awesome. I hope they can keep it NA though, I really have a distaste for turbos and SC. Too much extra piping, sensors, and oh, that thing that spins at 50k RPM, yea...

Not that it would deter me from getting the car, but I would prefer it NA.

NA is best

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by dominican

The Prelude is indeed a little pigglet, not sure why it's so heavy. Good to note that even while weighing so much, 200HP is still enough to have a lot of fun on and off the track. If they really can pull it off, and have a nice free revving boxer engine in it, I will be VERY happy.

Maybe it's that trick front differential?

[dominican]

Originally Posted by enc0re

Maybe it's that trick front differential?

Nah, mine is the base version, not an SH. I did put in a transmission with an LSD in it, makes it fun on the track

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by [es vi: eks]

Actually I read a artical late last year about this...

Bingo. The FB16(guessing) would be too late for the FT-86 release. But since I know that would have a turbo version, I'd wait for that one instead of going with a N/A FB20. 200BHP out of 1.6l with a turbo should be pretty easy/cheap .

Originally Posted by Zorro

I honestly think the car will fail in America if it doesn't have a turbo model pushing 300hp.
...

It's a good thing that they're not marketing it to the typical American then isn't it? Honestly the view that Americans will only buy big engines is based on the false notion that bashing a small engine car is bad for sales. If anything a negative view from the "old schools" is better because we have a large rebellion/anti-popular crowd IMHO. The Mustang was the best selling "muscle car" and it wasn't the most powerful and even offered lower range engines when others didn't *cough*iron duke*cough*. It was marketed for it's better handling many times including the original years! .

Considering that weight is just as important as HP a 230BHP/2800lb FT86 should be plenty of competition for the 300BHP/3700lb Mustang/Camaro. Especially since the FT86 is going to be a far smaller profile and more aerodynamic too.

[Niche79]

All I can say is if it only comes in 200hp than it better look me in the face at 20k, which it wont, esp with the Scion SC and the Honda crz flopping over 20 k and this cars supposed to be faster and a true sports car? I see this beast weighing in now at 200hp and 25k or more. When you start pushing 30k and only have 20k, its time to start walking away. Its a fine line they are gonna have to walk here. If its anywhere close to 30 and only 200hp I can say id never buy it and stick with that lightly used 370z. I just hope Toyota gets this one right! Hope its trolling boards like this seeing what the people who are actually looking to buy this car want!

[Midship Runabout]

I think the majority of people that will buy this car will buy it because it looks good and gets good gas milage not because it looks good and can beat so and so on a track

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Zorro

I honestly think the car will fail in America if it doesn't have a turbo model pushing 300hp.


Do you really think you average joe is gonna want something that will give them amazing handling , but will have every other guy on the block laughing at their straight line performance?

You're either:
A) very young
B) have self-confidence issues
C) Both A and B

Real men don't fucking care about what the hell their neighbors think about their own automotive tastes.

I don't care if it can beat the 5.0 in the quarter mile but If I can't make this a 12 second car after spending 4k or so in mods... No thanks...

Take it easy vin diesel, some of us DON'T live our lives a quarter mile at a time.

I know, many of you could care less and 1/4 mile times. But the fact is, if it don't go straight respectably fast. American's won't buy it.

Yeah, the entire compact japanese import scene and fanbase is a complete myth, funded by the Big 3 to confuse and scare Americans, by paying people (like me) to drive around in this slow, little rice-banging 4 cyl, that can't even beat a focus in a straight line.

Guess I'm not an American, cause I BOUGHT a car that can't go fast in a straight line.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Then, answer this. Why Miata have been selling awesomely? Cuz it's convertible? Cuz it's a chick car? Again, I'm not against turbo (I prefer NA), but that doesn't mean it need 300hp.

Believe it or not, 300hp sports cars are dying. So why Toyota wanna sell new car that fits in that spot?

Originally Posted by Midship Runabout

I think the majority of people that will buy this car will buy it because it looks good and gets good gas milage not because it looks good and can beat so and so on a track

And this is the reason most people buy the miata. Not because it can rip around a corner better then a mustang. Honestly, do you think the majority of miata owners want to track them? 300HP sports cars are dieing? Maybe true, lightweight, RWD sports cars, but everywhere i look I see 300+HP cars.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Bingo. The FB16(guessing) would be too late for the FT-86 release. But since I know that would have a turbo version, I'd wait for that one instead of going with a N/A FB20. 200BHP out of 1.6l with a turbo should be pretty easy/cheap .



It's a good thing that they're not marketing it to the typical American then isn't it? Honestly the view that Americans will only buy big engines is based on the false notion that bashing a small engine car is bad for sales. If anything a negative view from the "old schools" is better because we have a large rebellion/anti-popular crowd IMHO. The Mustang was the best selling "muscle car" and it wasn't the most powerful and even offered lower range engines when others didn't *cough*iron duke*cough*. It was marketed for it's better handling many times including the original years! .

Considering that weight is just as important as HP a 230BHP/2800lb FT86 should be plenty of competition for the 300BHP/3700lb Mustang/Camaro. Especially since the FT86 is going to be a far smaller profile and more aerodynamic too.

I agree, it will be competive with the low end models. But why limit yourself and your profits? I would love to see a model that can do toe to toe with the Z/Genesis etc.

Originally Posted by Archer256

No and no, for the price range they are targeting 300 hp is not needed. If people want 300 hp they can go get themselves a higher end sports car or move up to BMW/Lexus/Mercedes.

People buying this car are looking for an affordable yet fun to drive vehicle rather than getting a 4 door sedan or a more expensive fun car. By your reasoning, "average joe" wouldnt be buying a Camry, Prius, or anything. But...they do. If you're someone on a budget for a car looking 20-30k hmm oh look there's this coupe from toyota, decent price, fast, fun, nice interior...sold.

Originally Posted by Niche79

All I can say is if it only comes in 200hp than it better look me in the face at 20k, which it wont, esp with the Scion SC and the Honda crz flopping over 20 k and this cars supposed to be faster and a true sports car? I see this beast weighing in now at 200hp and 25k or more. When you start pushing 30k and only have 20k, its time to start walking away. Its a fine line they are gonna have to walk here. If its anywhere close to 30 and only 200hp I can say id never buy it and stick with that lightly used 370z. I just hope Toyota gets this one right! Hope its trolling boards like this seeing what the people who are actually looking to buy this car want!

This. Most guys will have a hard time justifying a ft86 in the upper 20s with that kinda power.

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You're either:
A) very young
B) have self-confidence issues
C) Both A and B

Did I say that I care??? Yes, I'm sure I am younger then most of you. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that big numbers sell cars.

Real men don't fucking care about what the hell their neighbors think about their own automotive tastes.

No, but MOST PEOPLE DO. Sorry to say, but we live in a very trival and material world.

Take it easy vin diesel, some of us DON'T live our lives a quarter mile at a time.

Yeah, the entire compact japanese import scene and fanbase is a complete myth, funded by the Big 3 to confuse and scare Americans, by paying people (like me) to drive around in this slow, little rice-banging 4 cyl, that can't even beat a focus in a straight line.

Guess I'm not an American, cause I BOUGHT a car that can't go fast in a straight line.

Calm down hotshot, and get off your high-horse. No need to start making personal cracks at me. Most guys do care about some straight line speed. You clearly don't. Hence using the word most... No need to hate on me because I like FI.

Wouldn't it be wise for toyota to sell this car to the widest market possible??? Wouldn't it be nice to have this car live on to a 2nd generation? Wouldn't it also be nice if this car was the first of a new wave of toyota sports cars???

trust me, I am not against a 200hp N/A model nor do I think it would be a lame ride. I have always been about handling over straight-line speed. Doesn't mean I don't get a thrill out of sheer acceleration.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You're either:
A) very young
B) have self-confidence issues
C) Both A and B

Real men don't fucking care about what the hell their neighbors think about their own automotive tastes.

Take it easy vin diesel, some of us DON'T live our lives a quarter mile at a time.

Yeah, the entire compact japanese import scene and fanbase is a complete myth, funded by the Big 3 to confuse and scare Americans, by paying people (like me) to drive around in this slow, little rice-banging 4 cyl, that can't even beat a focus in a straight line.

Guess I'm not an American, cause I BOUGHT a car that can't go fast in a straight line.

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[Archer256]

Toyota has 300+ Hp performance cars, they are called the Lexus IS 350, IS-F, let's throw in the GS as well (since there might be GS-F coming). So yeah they dont need TOO strong of a car under the Toyota badge, the FT is meant to get people INTO the brand and then move up to the before mentioned cars.

OH YEAH AND...this thing.

[Giccin]

HMMMM. If I remember correctly.. I said I liked drifting over straight lines and I sure did piss someone off. hahaha

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

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Not sure your point... Hating on my G?

Originally Posted by Archer256

Toyota has 300+ Hp performance cars, they are called the Lexus IS 350, IS-F, let's throw in the GS as well (since there might be GS-F coming). So yeah they dont need TOO strong of a car under the Toyota badge, the FT is meant to get people INTO the brand and then move up to the before mentioned cars.

If they offered the 350 in a 6mt I would probably be driving one. But those cars are sport sedans not pure breed sports cars. And 99.99% people who buy the ft-86 will never even step foot in an LFA. Although I must agree, it is one of the sexiest cars ever.