STX Rules and Setup Questions

[renfield90]

Silly rule IMO - the result of combining the "we want aftermarket steering wheels" and "we want no rules creep" focus groups. I can't think of another form of motorsport that requires you to attach weights to an aftermarket steering wheel.

[e1_griego]

I agree.

Looking like I'm going to be 1lb under stock weight so I'm having some weighted plates lasered out that will sandwich between the hub and the QR.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Silly rule IMO - the result of combining the "we want aftermarket steering wheels" and "we want no rules creep" focus groups. I can't think of another form of motorsport that requires you to attach weights to an aftermarket steering wheel.

Eh, easy to forget how many old cars are running under the ST rules, lots of 20+ year old Mazda's, Honda's, BMW's benefit from having aftermarket availability.

The fact that some are still competitive is one of the great things about grassroots motorsports.

Writing a ruleset that cover 30 year old economy cars as well as brand new luxury cars is hard.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Eh, easy to forget how many old cars are running under the ST rules, lots of 20+ year old Mazda's, Honda's, BMW's benefit from having aftermarket availability.

The fact that some are still competitive is one of the great things about grassroots motorsports.

Writing a ruleset that cover 30 year old economy cars as well as brand new luxury cars is hard.

There isn't a nationally competitive STF, STX, STR, STP, or STU car that does not come with an integral airbag in the steering wheel, which makes the allowance a no-go for nearly all unless weights are attached. It's silly.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by renfield90

There isn't a nationally competitive STF, STX, STR, STP, or STU car that does not come with an integral airbag in the steering wheel, which makes the allowance a no-go for nearly all unless weights are attached. It's silly.

Exactly, the ST class is supposed to keep the car streetable and keep costs relatively reasonable, that rule is there for STS and for outdated cars running in the other ST classes. It's written so cars with airbags retain their airbags and you don't lose out on 5 lbs by saying "no I still drive this thing to work 5 days a week"

Ironic they go to such detail about keeping the airbags, sound deadening, steering wheel, and misc. interior modifications (radio removal) but you're ok to pull a catalytic converter out...

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Exactly, the ST class is supposed to keep the car streetable and keep costs relatively reasonable, that rule is there for STS and for outdated cars running in the other ST classes. It's written so cars with airbags retain their airbags and you don't lose out on 5 lbs by saying "no I still drive this thing to work 5 days a week"

Ironic they go to such detail about keeping the airbags, sound deadening, steering wheel, and misc. interior modifications (radio removal) but you're ok to pull a catalytic converter out...

...and still maintain a secondary catalytic converter.

Anything else allowed and you get rule creep very quickly towards SP

Hell, ton of ST cars are trailer queens anyways. I know my 128i was, as I had the exhaust dumping at the differential and my engine, tranny and diff mounts made the car unbearable to drive on the street.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

...and still maintain a secondary catalytic converter.

Anything else allowed and you get rule creep very quickly towards SP

Hell, ton of ST cars are trailer queens anyways. I know my 128i was, as I had the exhaust dumping at the differential and my engine, tranny and diff mounts made the car unbearable to drive on the street.

This. I imagine an increasing majority of ST drivers don't know the story behind how SP became the monster that it is.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

...and still maintain a secondary catalytic converter.

Anything else allowed and you get rule creep very quickly towards SP

Hell, ton of ST cars are trailer queens anyways. I know my 128i was, as I had the exhaust dumping at the differential and my engine, tranny and diff mounts made the car unbearable to drive on the street.

I guess I was misunderstood.
Any modification of the emissions system is deemed illegal by the federal government, I'd prefer if the cars had to be kept 50 state emissions legality outside of an ECU tune.

Last I looked in California the fine was up to $2,500 for tampering with emissions equipment, iirc the federal fine is higher but there's no enforcement, so anybody with a header is keeping their fingers crossed that they don't piss off the wrong officer and has their calendar marked for when they have to switch back for their first emissions test (2 years to go for me).

But I know that is an unlikely thing to change. And idk, around here I can only think of one ST prepped car that's a trailer queen, they're in the minority.

Originally Posted by renfield90

This. I imagine an increasing majority of ST drivers don't know the story behind how SP became the monster that it is.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the ruleset, it doesn't take a genius to see the gap between street and street prepared, an in-between from the street classes and the SP classes is awesome. For me addressing the alignment issues of this car is the reason why I went straight for STX prep, my first major modification was camber plates and the added grip up front was totally addicting. For other cars the benefits of bigger tires, stiffer spring rates, and power via tuning opens up a lot of potential without a huge investment cost to be competitive & fun vs getting hooked on the purple crack and falling into the rabbit hole of a car that is no longer streetable.

Circling back to the steering wheel ruling, idk seems obvious to me it's intended to keep the older cars in the game, not allow a few ricers to change out their steering wheels 'for aesthetics' or 'driver preference' or give an edge to those who are truly determined to get every ounce of advantage, those that do change it out on a newer car probably aren't really competing, or aren't building their cars to be streetable, and at locals it'd be a silly thing to make an issue out of.

[cjd]

I see so many STS Civics show up on a trailer... really makes me wonder if there's something missing in the rules, to be honest. No way you'd want to drive on the street here in Chicago with those. Heck, I have to be careful in the BRZ.

I totally get trailering to nationals just in case...

Honestly, I want my airbags for driving to/from events (about the only driving I do any more). That's one reason I still have stock seats. If I ever think an extra 30-40lbs of weight reduction is what I need, I'll worry about it... till then, I have so much driver mod to work on. And since I'm not sure that'll ever be there, I'm also working on getting good at setup... try to close the gap somehow.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cjd

I see so many STS Civics show up on a trailer... really makes me wonder if there's something missing in the rules, to be honest.

Having spent some time in an '85 Civic and a 90-something Accord, I think even if they were set up for HS or whatever the owners would still consider trailering them to events, it's the car not the ruleset.



For as much shit as the 86 gets for being like a 'tin can', it ain't got nothing on Honda's 'glory days' of making 2,000 lb economy cars.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Having spent some time in an '85 Civic and a 90-something Accord, I think even if they were set up for HS or whatever the owners would still consider trailering them to events, it's the car not the ruleset.



For as much shit as the 86 gets for being like a 'tin can', it ain't got nothing on Honda's 'glory days' of making 2,000 lb economy cars.

I was just thinking that maybe ST* cars should have a "must drive to 75% of events" rule or something. Then they'd need a little more than 2-3mm of suspension travel and stuff... (and yes, I had someone exclaim "uh, do you have ANY droop?" when I was changing tires this year... so I can talk. )

[e1_griego]

Well I'm driving mine everywhere this year (crow's, packwood at least half a dozen times) etc. Still wanted to put in a seat and a steering wheel. :shrug:

[tigermack]

I drive mine everywhere except to Pro's and Nationals.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by cjd

I was just thinking that maybe ST* cars should have a "must drive to 75% of events" rule or something. Then they'd need a little more than 2-3mm of suspension travel and stuff... (and yes, I had someone exclaim "uh, do you have ANY droop?" when I was changing tires this year... so I can talk. )

You'll have people trailer the car to a parking lot down the road and then drive it to the event...