SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

So I read this "letter". No where in the letter does it say that the TRD suspension is a Port installed item on a Non-RS FR-S.

This is what it does say: These high-quality parts have been available to scion customers beginning with the introduction to the 2013 FR_S as both Post-Production Options and as Dealer-Installed Options, with that availability continuing for the Model Year 2014 and 2015.

We all know you could buy the TRD intake, Springs, Sways, Brake Pads ETC for a while.

Now that the RS has them as Port installed options, of course the wording of that letter has changed.

I think all you guys are taking that letter a bit too liberally. Go ahead and install your parts. And be ready for the frowny face.

The wording is vague but I tend to agree. When my son bought his 2013 FR-S, he asked about ordering one with the TRD springs and sways. He was told, by the Sales Manager at the dealership, that he could only get those as a dealer installed option when the car arrived. Based on that he bought a car off the lot and we subsequently installed RCE yellows on it. BS or uninformed Dealer? Perhaps but it makes me wonder if anyone has ever received a non RS 1.0 car with the TRD suspension parts as a port installed option.

I do not have a horse in this race but I have followed this discussion with great interest. I understand and can even relate to competitive racers looking for every competitive advantage they can find. However, sometimes the shortsightedness of striving for that competitive edge can come back to haunt in the end. I just cannot see the SEB allowing a RS 1.0 clone that is classed in BS running in CS which is one of the few thriving classes in Solo. Even if some of you are right and they cannot do anything about it this year the long term repercussions could be devastating to the competitiveness of the FR-S.

Be that as it may, the cat is out of the bag. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. On a positive note, if it goes bad for the first adopters there will likely be a bunch of slightly used TRD suspensions systems available at discounted prices to the street crowd.

P.S. I wonder if Toyota would do a letter that states that the TRD Sportivo suspension was available as a Port Installed Option for the MR2 Spyder? Poof, there goes ES.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

So I read this "letter". No where in the letter does it say that the TRD suspension is a Port installed item on a Non-RS FR-S.

This is what it does say: These high-quality parts have been available to scion customers beginning with the introduction to the 2013 FR_S as both Post-Production Options and as Dealer-Installed Options, with that availability continuing for the Model Year 2014 and 2015.

We all know you could buy the TRD intake, Springs, Sways, Brake Pads ETC for a while.

Now that the RS has them as Port installed options, of course the wording of that letter has changed.

I think all you guys are taking that letter a bit too liberally. Go ahead and install your parts. And be ready for the frowny face.

Just to clear up a few things.

-Post-Production Order = port-installed in toyota-speak. They don't have alternate terms for it.

-The TRD intake (not just the filter) is dealer-only. It's really the only thing that's clear on the scion site.

-I am still waiting for the SEB to make a ruling.

It's amazing how many people (not just you) can misunderstand and/or blow out of proportion in such a short amount of time. Many statements here that are some form of disingenuous or willfully blind.

"Typo" may turn out to be the euphemism of the year.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Just to clear up a few things.

-Post-Production Order = port-installed in toyota-speak. They don't have alternate terms for it.

-The TRD intake (not just the filter) is dealer-only. It's really the only thing that's clear on the scion site.

-I am still waiting for the SEB to make a ruling.

It's amazing how many people (not just you) can misunderstand and/or blow out of proportion in such a short amount of time. Many statements here that are some form of disingenuous or willfully blind.

"Typo" may turn out to be the euphemism of the year.

I know that post-production and Port installed are synonyms, in this letter.

But having Dealer-installed options in the wording means that the components in question are not all Port-installed. You guys are taking liberties with this letter.

However, it does NOT clearly state that the TRD suspension parts are port installed items. The letter uses blanket terms for all of the parts listed and does not stipulate *this part is a port installed option, and this part is a dealer installed option.

Like I said before, since this letter is post RS FR-S the wording has to include Post-Production.

Had this letter been written in 2013, I'm sure the wording would be different.

By the wording on the letter and the liberties you guys are taking with the letter, you can make a RS 1.0 FRS (minus the numbered badge) and say "i'm good for C Street now."

Because everything on that RS can be bought and added to a normal FR-S.

Edit:
The letter says that sways and springs are port installed on a normal FR-S if you just ignore the "dealer-installed option" bit.

[anonymoustallguy]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

By the wording on the letter and the liberties you guys are taking with the letter, you can make a RS 1.0 FRS (minus the numbered badge) and say "i'm good for C Street now."

Because everything on that RS can be bought and added to a normal FR-S.

If there are PPO codes for those parts... which for many of them there are not.

If there were, I would have purchased 7.5J +35 wheels, intake and short shift kit as well.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by anonymoustallguy

If there are PPO codes for those parts... which for many of them there are not.

If there were, I would have purchased 7.5J +35 wheels, intake and short shift kit as well.

Those "PPO" Codes are for the RS 1.0 FR-S. and they are Post Production Option for the RS 1.0.


They are Dealer Installed Options for a non RS 1.0 FR-S.

I don't understand the confusion.

Says in the letter Post Production and Dealer Installed. Because of the RS 1.0, the letter can include the term Post Production.

Had this letter been written PRIOR to the RS 1.0, I am positive that the term Post Production Option would not be a part of that letter.

[DocWalt]

Who cares if the letter is worded differently now that the RS 1.0 is out. The ambiguous wording opens up an opportunity for some "legal" mods in CS.

I'm not in CS (and hopefully not autoxing the BRZ at all this year) so I frankly don't give a damn. Entertaining though to watch the silly arguments from both sides on this.

[7thgear]

no argument is complete without the obligatory "you're all on crack, I'm da best, ohh look a goat" dude chiming in to set everyone in their place.

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by renfield90

"I am not designed to come in second or third place. I am designed to win." - Senna

And with that, I'm leaving work for the day to install my springs. Cheers.

Hope those springs are good for a 2.5% pickup!

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...%20Results.pdf

I think the thread was missing some good ole fashioned trash talk.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I don't understand the confusion.

I think it's because you're confused. Go back and read that letter ("typos" and all) and try to not inject your point-of-view into it. Butthurt affects reading comprehension just as much as over-excitement does.

Now, as to whether what that letter states is true or is just some fabrication from a parts manager?

If the SEB signs off on that letter (however many revisions it receives), then yeah, the BRZ did effectively get knee-capped for this season. Policy responses or possible classing adjustments after that date? More

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

I think it's because you're confused. Go back and read that letter ("typos" and all) and try to not inject your point-of-view into it. Butthurt affects reading comprehension just as much as over-excitement does.

Now, as to whether what that letter states is true or is just some fabrication from a parts manager?

If the SEB signs off on that letter (however many revisions it receives), then yeah, the BRZ did effectively get knee-capped for this season. Policy responses or possible classing adjustments after that date? More

Point of view?

It lists TWO parts. and in the the letter it describes those TWO parts as a Post Production Option and a Dealer Installed option.


I don't even run C Street. This has no affect on me at all.
BUT the assumption that this letter means "TRD sways and springs are Port Installed on a FR-S" is rediculous. I have no idea how you could arrive to that conclusion given the letter.
A FR-S has NEVER, until the RS 1.0, been fitted with TRD sways/springs at the port. They have been DEALER OPTIONS since 2013. I do not think this "letter" is written in anyway that would guard a FR-S against any protest.

I really think you guys see Part #s and Port Installed and 2013 and 2014 FR-S to come to your conclusion.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Butthurt affects reading comprehension just as much as over-excitement does.

LOL!!

[Shark_Bait88]

If we're really down to examining the phrasing/language of the letter, the structure of it indicates that the PNs were available as both PPO and DIO in 2013 and continuing forward.

Now whether that is true, or if the phrasing is misrepresenting when and in what manner the mods were available, is another matter that can only be cleared up by someone at Toyota providing a statement or evidence contrary to this letter.


Assuming that these PNs were available as PPO since 2013, why haven't we seen an FR-S delivered with them as PPO? My guess would be dealer greed. If a dealer has two ways of providing add-ons/options for a customer's car (PPO vs DIO), you can bet your ass they're going to push the option that makes them more money by installing the parts in-house. There's a good chance that they'd likely avoid mentioning, or attempt to conceal, that PPO is even an option to the customer.

In this case we're also assuming that PPO and PIO are synonymous. The argument has been made that PPO is only included in the language because of the introduction of RS 1.0. However, in the RS 1.0 the TRD PNs are standard. I don't think Toyota would consider those parts as PPO. It's not like they build an FR-S and then take off parts and install other parts to make an RS 1.0.

Simply based on the language/terms being used and the sentence structure I would say the letter pretty clearly indicates that both the TRD lowering springs and sway bar kit could have been ordered as PPO on any FR-S, going back the MY13.

Again, this validity of this claim falls on Mr. Reynolds. From my experience, I work on the marketing/product management team of a major automotive parts manufacturer, I would very much hope that a Marketing Manager knows what he's talking about. Such positions are rarely given to people who don't know the product lines through and through, I'd imagine even more so at a major OE.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Those "PPO" Codes are for the RS 1.0 FR-S. and they are Post Production Option for the RS 1.0.


They are Dealer Installed Options for a non RS 1.0 FR-S.

I don't understand the confusion.

Says in the letter Post Production and Dealer Installed. Because of the RS 1.0, the letter can include the term Post Production.

Had this letter been written PRIOR to the RS 1.0, I am positive that the term Post Production Option would not be a part of that letter.

Yeah, going to stick with a reading comprehension fail.

Perhaps you can tell me where in that letter any mention of the RS is made, other than to be forced to string those letters together in order to say FR-S. Or, who has a 2013 RS 1.0.

And pssst. RS 1.0's get made at the factory, not converted at the port. Nevermind PPO codes, the RS is a different model code.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Yeah, going to stick with a reading comprehension fail.

Perhaps you can tell me where in that letter any mention of the RS is made, other than to be forced to string those letters together in order to say FR-S. Or, who has a 2013 RS 1.0.

And pssst. RS 1.0's get made at the factory, not converted at the port. Nevermind PPO codes, the RS is a different model code.

All you have to do is show me a FR-S that came with the TRD springs/sways as a Port Installed Option.

If you cannot show me a FR-S that came with TRD springs/sways as a Port Installed Option. Through process of elimination, the RS 1.0 is the only other FR-S that could possibly have TRD Sways/springs installed as a Port Installed Option.