CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SimplePortal

Is there any significant difference between the OEM crash bolt and the SPC Camber Bolt Kit? Does one add more camber than the other? Or is one safer to use than the other?

There is both an OEM crash and camber bolt. We stock both. Crash bolts are 14mm, while the camber bolt is a 14mm with excentric lobe.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ja1217

I've considered it, but I think the 225 R7 is the tire to run. Also, right now Hoosier doesn't offer anything smaller than a 225 in a 17 inch tire. I'm not sure anything else would really be worth the points either.

My theoretical setup with 3 point dampers:

+5 Exhaust (header/overpipe/frontpipe)
+3 Dampers
+2 Springs
+6 Tires (225 Hoosier R7)
+2 BBK (I know everyone says that BBK isn't worth the points in TT, but I think my AP Sprint Kit might still be my favorite mod to the car)
+1 LSD (Cusco RS)
+0 E85 tune
-----------------------------------
19 points total (max in class) and I would probably be bumping right up against the max power to weight ratio for TTD as well.

The BBK is absolutely worth it.

Depending on the track, I might sacrifice some power for more damper...

The LSD is a steal at 1 point.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by SimplePortal

Is there any significant difference between the OEM crash bolt and the SPC Camber Bolt Kit? Does one add more camber than the other? Or is one safer to use than the other?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There is both an OEM crash and camber bolt. We stock both. Crash bolts are 14mm, while the camber bolt is a 14mm with excentric lobe.

If you buy the 14mm camber bolt take the lower bolt it replaces and move it to the top hole (it is the oem crash bolt). I get -2.6 max with no slipping to date running autox and rough canyon roads.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Hey Bryan,

Glad to hear that people are reading through this full thread.

Why the desire to stay stock height or higher?

What type of improvement are you looking for specifically?

- Andrew

Its seems like a stupid reason, but mainly its because my neighborhood is full of very steep roads, curbs and driveways. My garage is actually below my house, which requires me to drive up and over the a steep sidewalk and down a similarly steep driveway into my garage. If I go any lower, I'm afraid I may high-center

Improvement wise, I'm mostly looking for some adjustability when I go on trackdays. If you want specifics, I'm mostly looking for better turn-in and moving the bias a little bit more towards oversteer, hence the camber bolts and stiffer rear sway bar. Just mostly curious what options you guys might recommend.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Now that's an unusual request; most coilovers will force you to drop a bit to get full droop travel. If it's due to rough roads, keep in mind that better dampers will also absorb the road better, so unless you're flying over potholes, you shouldn't have any issues. If it's tough driveways... well... there's not really a fix for that

You can also get a 235/45/17 in some tires to get even MORE height.

Unusual is correct, I figured I'd find somebody with a similar question while reading the thread, but nope, so here I am. Agreed with the tough driveways, which is why I'm also fine with staying stock

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by SimplePortal

Is there any significant difference between the OEM crash bolt and the SPC Camber Bolt Kit? Does one add more camber than the other? Or is one safer to use than the other?

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There is both an OEM crash and camber bolt. We stock both. Crash bolts are 14mm, while the camber bolt is a 14mm with excentric lobe.

Some say the SPC bolts aren't as good quality as the OEM (rust). Living on an island, with very salty air, I've opted for the OEM.

[Racecomp Engineering]

@BigFatFlip

I wouldn't use the tires to raise the car toooo much...it could start feeling sloppy.

Just a set of Koni Yellow adjustable dampers would be one way to start. You get a pretty decent shock with some rebound adjustability. Add the FRS rear springs for a little more rear rate without a drop. Add some bushings.

If you really wanted to, you could get coilovers (some will be okay with a 10mm drop) and then add some spacers to the top to get you back up to stock height without the risk of topping out the shock by running it out of it's intended range (and still have some droop). But I'm not sure that's the route I would take.

- Andy

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

If you really wanted to, you could get coilovers (some will be okay with a 10mm drop) and then add some spacers to the top to get you back up to stock height without the risk of topping out the shock by running it out of it's intended range (and still have some droop). But I'm not sure that's the route I would take.

- Andy

I don't suppose anyone makes top hats designed to raise the car, do they? I know there are one or two designed to lower the car.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I don't suppose anyone makes top hats designed to raise the car, do they? I know there are one or two designed to lower the car.

I haven't found top hats per-se but I have found spacers that do. They essentially go between the coilovers and the top hats. I actually bought some from subtle solutions, with the intention of milling them down thinner, but like Andy mentioned, I was a bit hesitant, since it maybe adding yet another point of failure.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

I haven't found top hats per-se but I have found spacers that do. They essentially go between the coilovers and the top hats. I actually bought some from subtle solutions, with the intention of milling them down thinner, but like Andy mentioned, I was a bit hesitant, since it maybe adding yet another point of failure.

So, I'm curious.

How thick are those spacers and what are they made of? I would think that you would need a significant amount of lateral stress right at the mounting points to cause those to fail, and when they did it would be because of the bolts shearing more than anything else.

My question then is that given the A-frame shape of the front LCA, and the A-frame shape of the rear LCA/trailing arm combo, how much lateral stress is seen right at the top hats anyways? The shape of the arms prevent the strut from moving too much front to back or side to side, and the actual top mounts would absorb what little movement there is just like they do now. The front rotates around the steering axis, but that's handled by the bearing in the top mount. To generate that level of stress in just the right direction at just the right spot would require a pretty catastrophic event anyways.

I've seen Jeeps snap body lift kits, but that's because you've got the entire weight of the body mounted on eight relatively small diameter pucks with single bolts and at least four inches of leverage on them, which makes it easier to push them over and snap the bolts. These seem a lot more stable. They're much shorter, wider, and there are more bolts per spacer, which would keep it from twisting and breaking.

Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanical engineer or suspension expert, that's just what immediately came to mind. But people run tall wheel spacers all the time with no issues, and those put a lot more shearing stress directly onto the spacer than this would. If I am wrong, I'd like it if someone could explain why so I could learn.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So, I'm curious.

How thick are those spacers and what are they made of? I would think that you would need a significant amount of lateral stress right at the mounting points to cause those to fail, and when they did it would be because of the bolts shearing more than anything else.

Keep in mind, I'm not a mechanical engineer or suspension expert, that's just what immediately came to mind. But people run tall wheel spacers all the time with no issues, and those put a lot more shearing stress directly onto the spacer than this would. If I am wrong, I'd like it if someone could explain why so I could learn.

The spacers I actually have are 1" 6061 Aluminum, part of which was going to be for my WRX (I ordered the rears separate since they are the same for the fronts). My plan was to mill them down and re-anodize once I settled on a coilover to bring me back to stock height. From my research, it looks like around 15-20mm ball park (~1/2"-3/4"). They also have 3/8" and 1/4" available made out of HDPE.

For not being a mechanical engineer/suspension expert, you are quite intuitive You are correct, the chance of failure is pretty small. My statement was more towards the extension of the studs which come with the kit to make up for the thicker spacers. I would guess that extending the studs adds more sheer force on them (like a lever arm) and may be multiplied during high stress situations, compared to the stock placement. Granted, I do still plan on tracking the car once in a while, so hence my hesitation.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

My statement was more towards the extension of the studs which come with the kit to make up for the thicker spacers. I would guess that extending the studs adds more sheer force on them (like a lever arm) and may be multiplied during high stress situations, compared to the stock placement.

That's how the Jeeps ended up failing. Too long of a lever arm (spacer length) on too little spacer surface area between the body and the frame, combined with the body's weight at odd angles (offroading), caused the body to lever the spacers over and stretch and snap the bolts.

[ZionsWrath]

How important is blue loctite on camber plate. Raceseng calls for it.

Also it says to "grease" a few areas. I have silicone paste and also grease in my grease gun for zerk fittings. Which to use or something else?

[ScionOfHorus]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

@BigFatFlip

I wouldn't use the tires to raise the car toooo much...it could start feeling sloppy.

Just a set of Koni Yellow adjustable dampers would be one way to start. You get a pretty decent shock with some rebound adjustability. Add the FRS rear springs for a little more rear rate without a drop. Add some bushings.

If you really wanted to, you could get coilovers (some will be okay with a 10mm drop) and then add some spacers to the top to get you back up to stock height without the risk of topping out the shock by running it out of it's intended range (and still have some droop). But I'm not sure that's the route I would take.

- Andy

I am actually running a 245/45/17 right now, feels just fine on the track. To me anyways.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ScionOfHorus

I am actually running a 245/45/17 right now, feels just fine on the track. To me anyways.

Yeah those are fine...I had an image of giganto bubbly tires in my head.

245/65/17!

- Andy