BRZ STi tS Confirmed. Teased on Official Website

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Yeah, but it's still the benchmark because we haven't surpassed that on a mass scale yet.

A well executed turbo would be cool and obviously a huge aftermarket hit...but I think a bored/stroked NA would be cool too. As mentioned they have the FB25 block already...

To be fair, Honda, Ferrari, and Porsche are the only ones that consistently are near this mark... although I've given up on Honda since they've gone backwards as far as engine output goes.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Given your reliability record already, do you think Subaru should be pushing more power out of the motor?

From an enthusiast perspective? Hell yes.

From a business perspective? Suicide.

They've pulled out of WRC a long time ago...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

To be fair, Honda, Ferrari, and Porsche are the only ones that consistently are near this mark... although I've given up on Honda since they've gone backwards as far as engine output goes.

Two of those are far less attainable and the third one is a building a V6 hybrid AWD car they're calling the NSX...so while the metric is old, it stands IMO.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

From an enthusiast perspective? Hell yes.

From a business perspective? Suicide.

They've pulled out of WRC a long time ago...

And this is the failure of a high-strung N/A engine. At least with a factory turbo there's some thought to longevity and a whole host of things you can do...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Two of those are far less attainable and the third one is a building a V6 hybrid AWD car they're calling the NSX...so while the metric is old, it stands IMO.



And this is the failure of a high-strung N/A engine. At least with a factory turbo there's some thought to longevity and a whole host of things you can do...

I need someone to gift CSG a F2xC and transmission to drop into the BRZ.

[DylanFRS]

I just don't like it that people say the car NEEDS more power. That is a really strong word. And, in my opinion, the car is exactly what a lot of us enthusiasts have been asking for for years.

Some of us enthusiasts have been asking for years to have a cheaper car, with RWD and a decent suspension. It's okay, we don't need a ton of power and an awesome interior, just make it light and RWD at a price we can afford. So Toyota/Subaru finally does that and everyone goes and buys one and then complains about not enough power, crappy interior, it needs a sunroof, why doesn't it have better tires, I wish the backseat was more useful, etc...

Personally, I think that people wouldn't complain so much about the power if they would just get rid of the torque dip. I would prefer it was a 200hp engine designed by Honda instead. No torque dip and I would actually feel like I could flog it for 100k+ miles and not have it grenade.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I need someone to gift CSG a F2xC and transmission to drop into the BRZ.

Now that's a different story. That block can take some stupid punishment. I'm waiting to see a revision on the DI of our cars in the next few model years; that will tell me they well and truly mucked up there.

Insert 700hp T1 Race Development S2000 video here.

@CSG Mike let's be real, we'd all be better off a with a VQ37 under the hood.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by a2cpc

I have to agree with chanomatik that highway driving a WRX/STI makes one a bit lazy and BRZ requires more finesse and attention. While having the power to pass at will is nice it is a luxury, it is not a necessity. I also understand that, at altitude, a turbo charger helps. Some might say that having the power would get them out of some bad situations. While that might be true, I think most of those situations are self made and might have been avoided with better situational awareness.

I do not agree with chanomatik on the "more unique" thing. There is no "more unique"!

That's just me being funny again! Sheesh!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Now that's a different story. That block can take some stupid punishment. I'm waiting to see a revision on the DI of our cars in the next few model years; that will tell me they well and truly mucked up there.

Insert 700hp T1 Race Development S2000 video here.

@CSG Mike let's be real, we'd all be better off a with a VQ37 under the hood.

I've thought about a VQ35HR S2000/BRZ more than a few times... I'm not a big fan of VVEL for hard driving. A Frankenstein VQ37 bottom end with a VQ35HR top end would be nice, although I don't know how long it would survive with a raised redline.

In all seriousness, do I know you from MyG37/Driver/etc?

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This only applies when your competition doesn't know how to turn...

A BRZ will not turn faster than a Corvette, with equally talented drivers.

Amen to that.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Why? What's wrong with more power?

Personally, I think it's embarrassing that the girl next door in her Rav4 can out-accelerate us by just stomping on her gas pedal. In a SUV.

Did you get her number?

Seriously, though, I hate these comparisons to V6 motors. You're obviously doing it wrong. Watch her trail brake around the corner. If you can't get her at the corner, failure on your end, you don't deserve her numba.

Why is everyone about 0-60 times? You can't have it all. Enjoy a car that handles like an exotic, but at a fraction of the cost. Why is that not enough?

And I'm not denying anyone FI. I think FI guys are denying NA. THAT'S my problem. Having owned three turbocharged Subies and now two NA ones, I'm fine with NA. It's much more rewarding. That's where my high horse stance altitude comes from: Experience. Get some!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Did you get her number?

Seriously, though, I hate these comparisons to V6 motors. You're obviously doing it wrong. Watch her trail brake around the corner. If you can't get her at the corner, failure on your end, you don't deserve her numba.

Why is everyone about 0-60 times? You can't have it all. Enjoy a car that handles like an exotic, but at a fraction of the cost. Why is that not enough? A 200hp 458 will still decimate a BRZ/FRS around a track.

And I'm not denying anyone FI. I think FI guys are denying NA. THAT'S my problem. Having owned three turbocharged Subies and now two NA ones, I'm fine with NA. It's much more rewarding. That's where my high horse stance altitude comes from: Experience. Get some!

This car doesn't handle anything CLOSE to an exotic. Don't let the videos of a fast driver in a slow car on track fool you because they're passing slow drivers in fast cars.

What's wrong with comparing to a V6? Cost is cost. Lets turn the tables. Why cant Subaru make a 4 cylinder that makes as much horsepower as the naturally aspirated 4 cylinders of Nissan/Toyota/Honda in the past?

My Toyota 3S-GE made 200hp out of 2 liters. 15 years ago.

Everyone is so defensive of their 200 horsepower.

As for experience... I definitely need more.

[TouchMyHonda]

Hum

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This car doesn't handle anything CLOSE to an exotic. Don't let the videos of a fast driver in a slow car on track fool you because they're passing slow drivers in fast cars.

What's wrong with comparing to a V6? Cost is cost. Lets turn the tables. Why cant Subaru make a 4 cylinder that makes as much horsepower as the naturally aspirated 4 cylinders of Nissan/Toyota/Honda in the past?

My Toyota 3S-GE made 200hp out of 2 liters. 15 years ago.

Everyone is so defensive of their 200 horsepower.

As for experience... I definitely need more.

So a Rav4 handles as close to an exotic as the FT-86? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. Close is a relative term. If the BRZ isn't even close then you're pretty much saying that no car that mere mortals can attain is close and they're all equal, which they're not. Each car is purpose built. I get defensive when people miss the purpose of the FT-86. Everyone has plenty of choices for power. Why does the FT-86 have to be everything?

It's perfect at what it was built for and that's the bottom line. Anything beyond that is available aftermarket and subject to one's personal preferences.

Now, if we're saying it was built FOR THE TRACK, then... it fails at that. hahaha But we know it wasn't, it's just "trackable", which... is very subjective.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

So a Rav4 handles as close to an exotic as the FT-86? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. Close is a relative term. If the BRZ isn't even close then you're pretty much saying that no car that mere mortals can attain is close and they're all equal, which they're not. Each car is purpose built. I get defensive when people miss the purpose of the FT-86. Everyone has plenty of choices for power. Why does the FT-86 have to be everything?

It's perfect at what it was built for and that's the bottom line. Anything beyond that is available aftermarket and subject to one's personal preferences.

Now, if we're saying it was built FOR THE TRACK, then... it fails at that. hahaha But we know it wasn't, it's just "trackable", which... is very subjective.

I've put down faster laps in 100% bone stock Rav4 at the track than I have in a 100% bone stock FRS/BRZ. Sure the FRS/BRZ handles better, but not enough to overcome a power deficiency.

Absolutely serious.

For the record, the Rav4 is faster than the CRV and Ford Escape on track.


The car suffers from a viscous cycle of not having enough power. It doesn't have enough power, so they put skinny tires on it, which compromises handling.

Imagine having a 300hp 300tq turbo version for $37k. All the sudden, you have the attention of all the 370Z/Mustang/Camaro buyers as well.