2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Can never disregard the possibility that the marketing folks probably had much less say in the first design than they did the facelift as well. Many a great car has declined rapidly when project control leans more toward marketing than engineering.

I can see where you're coming from,I think it's had terrible marketing here in the US. But they're scrambling just as you said the fact that it's not a Scion. I'm sure originally it was going to get the Scion Badge( I'm still loving the fact that the steering wheel has that nice silver 86 instead of the crappy cheap looking toyota one we got in the terrible press release photo in February)

I don't think marketing has much say in the 86 or they took a different approach, I think it's working well in Japan . but since there's stuff I can't say,let's just put he idea of there's a certain division In toyota that had a lot more say than before,to the point that they're being marketed with the car in many ways, there was also some politics on subaru side, and that's also why it looks like the way it does mostly unchanged.

When all the information come out I'm sure we can talk more and things will make more sense.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I can see where you're coming from,I think it's had terrible marketing here in the US. But they're scrambling just as you said the fact that it's not a Scion. I'm sure originally it was going to get the Scion Badge( I'm still loving the fact that the steering wheel has that nice silver 86 instead of the crappy cheap looking toyota one we got in the terrible press release photo in February)



I don't think marketing has much say in the 86 or they took a different approach, I think it's working well in Japan . but since there's stuff I can't say,let's just put he idea of there's a certain division In toyota that had a lot more say than before,to the point that they're being marketed with the car in many ways, there was also some politics on subaru side, and that's also why it looks like the way it does mostly unchanged.



When all the information come out I'm sure we can talk more and things will make more sense.

Few things that Toyota totally screwed up giving it a Scion badge big mistake, no HID/LED's, now Toyota decided to correct the mistakes with the refresh. I don't frankly mind the interior being bare bones but the lights HIDS needs to be standard.


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[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

Few things that Toyota totally screwed up giving it a Scion badge big mistake, no HID/LED's, now Toyota decided to correct the mistakes with the refresh. I don't frankly mind the interior being bare bones but the lights HIDS needs to be standard.


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Except Scion existed to market a vehicle like this. Very few people have a problem with the Scion badging. And I suspect few people have a problem with there being no HIDs. I don't. It's one of the ways the car was kept affordable. Now if it didn't have projectors I would have a problem

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

Few things that Toyota totally screwed up giving it a Scion badge big mistake, no HID/LED's, now Toyota decided to correct the mistakes with the refresh. I don't frankly mind the interior being bare bones but the lights HIDS needs to be standard.


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Agreed, those things should be standard! And I'm glad they are now as well. I just didn't expect them to also give us the highest trim stuff inside the car, like really its they stuff they put in Japanese GT limited cars and it's basically an FRS (seats are from the older GT). I don't mind the barebones either but for what the predicted price will be I think it's nice. I didn't like the FRS interior for the earlier models, I believe after 2014 when they changed the carbon piece and added knee pads it was alittle better. It always bothered me that every reviewer most hated the interior but love the way it drove, and then they make recommendations to get other things that cost similar but had nicer inside ie miata ND base. Glad that toyota is getting competitive with their grand lux stuff.

Hell if it came with an Arm rest then it would prolly outsell the BRZ premium in that basis alone! Jk

Speaking of Armrest, I believe Australian get them with their high trim 86, funny thing is the stitching don't always match depends on the color of your interior lol.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Except Scion existed to market a vehicle like this. Very few people have a problem with the Scion badging. And I suspect few people have a problem with there being no HIDs. I don't. It's one of the ways the car was kept affordable. Now if it didn't have projectors I would have a problem

If "very few people have a problem with the Scion badging" then why have badge retrofits been one of the top moneymakers for several of the aftermarket parts retailers out there?

If "few people have a problem with there being no HIDs" then why have two companies made a fortune selling HID retro kits for FR-S's?

This vehicle exists because Toyota- NOT "Scion"- recognized that it needed a performance car again. The North American decision to put this car in the Scion line was too little too late to help what was already a misguided, dying consumer experiment. It was obviously a mistake. res ipsa loquitur.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by FX86

it's because the FR-S is the poor man's BRZ

Except my FRS has more options than a BRZ Limited.

I was very close to buying a WRB BRZ, but I have always preferred the 86 front bumper.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

If "very few people have a problem with the Scion badging" then why have badge retrofits been one of the top moneymakers for several of the aftermarket parts retailers out there?

If "few people have a problem with there being no HIDs" then why have two companies made a fortune selling HID retro kits for FR-S's?

This vehicle exists because Toyota- NOT "Scion"- recognized that it needed a performance car again. The North American decision to put this car in the Scion line was too little too late to help what was already a misguided, dying consumer experiment. It was obviously a mistake. res ipsa loquitur.

Do you have sources to back up your assertions? Somehow I doubt rebadging FRSs is solely keeping multiple companies afloat let alone making a "fortune." Just because a vocal minority on a forum that comprises a minority of owners complains a lot, doesn't mean fortunes are being made. Does Diode Dynamics make good coin on HIDs for the FRS? I'm sure. They also sell HIDs for just about every other car on the road. The FRS didn't turn them into a Fortune 500 company. Without some solid numbers to back up your statements, they are just theories.

[Shinigami301]

I'm not going to engage with you here. Not interested in arguments when the obvious is there to see.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Toyota needed the car to add a sports model to their line up but Subaru all ready specialize in that so they probably just wanted a lower volume to bring people in the door and try to sell them a WRX/STi so were not looking for the same volumes at any point.

We'll never know for sure what were the initial negotiations. However, it looks that something changed the last few years. Toyota doesn't look to be interested anymore on this co-operation. They are now actively promoting Prius on racing events in Japan and working intensively on the Yaris WRC version. There were some people trying hard to push the future of the GT86 platform with an AWD prototype but it didn't flourish.

I can see a Prius replacer as a GT86 version 2.0 by using a sports hybrid engine, but it will be something entirely different. On the other hand, Subaru is saying that they'll go forward with a BRZ version 2.0 even if they'll have to work alone ...

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

I'm not going to engage with you here. Not interested in arguments when the obvious is there to see.

Kek. Glad you see it my way

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Except Scion existed to market a vehicle like this. Very few people have a problem with the Scion badging. And I suspect few people have a problem with there being no HIDs. I don't. It's one of the ways the car was kept affordable. Now if it didn't have projectors I would have a problem

I wouldn't mind had they gave us that option, the DRL LEDs really stands out in our cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

If "very few people have a problem with the Scion badging" then why have badge retrofits been one of the top moneymakers for several of the aftermarket parts retailers out there?

If "few people have a problem with there being no HIDs" then why have two companies made a fortune selling HID retro kits for FR-S's?

This vehicle exists because Toyota- NOT "Scion"- recognized that it needed a performance car again. The North American decision to put this car in the Scion line was too little too late to help what was already a misguided, dying consumer experiment. It was obviously a mistake. res ipsa loquitur.

I bet there are still 10,000 Scion badged cars for every Toyota swapped one.
I bet there are 15,000 stock headlights still in cars for every HID swap.
My proof of these numbers is exactly the same used to support your theory.


This forum is not a good indicator as to what happens to these cars. We are a small minority of buyers not the leaders. A few badge purists and head light aficionados did not make nor break Scion nor set the sales pace for them here. Lack of any sort of real marketing and a total reliance on internet promotion are probably more to blame than HIDs and badges. Subaru had HIDs and a recognized and respected badge and the BRZ was not exactly flying off the shelf either.


I do however agree that Scion was a failed consumer experiment. It started out doing superb but fizzled rather quickly since I really don't think they ever really put ant heart into it.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I bet there are still 10,000 Scion badged cars for every Toyota swapped one.
I bet there are 15,000 stock headlights still in cars for every HID swap.
My proof of these numbers is exactly the same used to support your theory.


This forum is not a good indicator as to what happens to these cars. We are a small minority of buyers not the leaders. A few badge purists and head light aficionados did not make nor break Scion nor set the sales pace for them here. Lack of any sort of real marketing and a total reliance on internet promotion are probably more to blame than HIDs and badges. Subaru had HIDs and a recognized and respected badge and the BRZ was not exactly flying off the shelf either.


I do however agree that Scion was a failed consumer experiment. It started out doing superb but fizzled rather quickly since I really don't think they ever really put ant heart into it.

Hence why it should've been a Toyota right from the start.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

Hence why it should've been a Toyota right from the start.

I do not disagree with that. But it wasn't.