COVID Developments and News - Page 154 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Capt Spaulding · 12-24-2021, 02:53 PM

It's not surprising that death certificates are unreliable. In Texas a Justice of the Peace (who is an elected, non-legally - and certainly not medically - trained judge) can sign them. Formal autopsies are rare and I would bet even physicians often are often guessing when they attribute a cause.

An exact number of covid deaths will, most likely, never be known. Not because they are deliberately fudged, but because the circumstances make it difficult to determine precisely. There are many folks (some here) who still want to downplay the seriousness of the virus. Some may want to play it up for their own reasons.

If you want to get legalistic about it, what you want is the "proximate cause" of death. There are a lot ways to think about that. I think the most useful is to ask 'what was the last worst thing that happened and what caused it?" Co-morbidities can play a role, but they are usually not determinative. If I have a heart condition and fluid fills my lungs and my heart stops what killed me is the fluid filling my lungs. If I have a congenitally thin skull (eggshell skull) and you push me down causing me to hit my head fracturing my skull it is the shove that killed me not my fragility. You may have committed manslaughter.

For many to most of the patients with preexisting conditions who have suffered covid related deaths you would need to ask yourself "would this person have died, at this moment, if they had not contracted Covid?" If you answer this honestly, I'd bet the number of covid deaths is higher than you'd think.

That's why the "excess deaths" approach has the attraction that it does. Using that as a measure is sobering. We may be undercounting the death toll of the pandemic.

wbradley · 12-24-2021, 03:37 PM

Keep in mind in a large proportion of the mortalities were elderly people that might have lived another year or another decade, but prior to contracting Covid19, they were not in an immediate life threatening condition. Diabetes, common in older people, heart disease as well, obesity is endemic. Without getting into specifics, I have seen how an elderly person living in a lockdown situation not able to see family on a regular basis for much of 2020 and suffering from that, becomes weakened and combined with other common pre-existing conditions in the elderly succumbs to what a healthy 30 year old would have described as a wicked chest infection and feeling exhausted for a few days.
It's like suffocating.

Capt Spaulding · 12-24-2021, 05:14 PM

As an example of the difference an excess deaths approach can make, The Economist (not really a politically liberal publication) recently examined the global death toll. The published total globally is 5.4 million. The estimate they published was 18.5 million. (95% CI 12m - 21m). That’s over 3 times the published number. Like I said, sobering.

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 12:03 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/healt...ess/index.html

Facial decorations?

Dadhawk · 12-25-2021, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...a65b455253a85f

Healthcare workers who test positive no longer need to isolate for 10 days

Not surprised. It's no different than most other diseases where if you are free of fever for 24 hours you are usually cleared to come back to work, particularly if you test negative.

Of course, you can have COVID-19 without a fever so you can't use that as a guideline.

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 06:25 PM

Had night sweats during the week and felt like my body was/is fighting something. Woke up today with a sore throat and a congested yet dry feeling in my sinuses. Fully vaxxed so I'm not worried and Walgreens is sold out of test kits lol

wbradley · 12-25-2021, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Had night sweats during the week and felt like my body was/is fighting something. Woke up today with a sore throat and a congested yet dry feeling in my sinuses. Fully vaxxed so I'm not worried and Walgreens is sold out of test kits lol

That's pretty much what my friend felt. He is just finished self isolation 10 days after first showing symptoms.

One of his kids coughed a lot for 2 days with the weakness feeling and the other had a headache for one day. Both kids once vaccinated, my friend twice.

I'm just past 6 months, and it looks like I'm as good as unvaccinated again. Moreover, the government tells you on TV to get a booster but I've checked all but 2 days since I've been eligible for 10 days with no appointment as of yet.

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbradley

That's pretty much what my friend felt. He is just finished self isolation 10 days after first showing symptoms.

One of his kids coughed a lot for 2 days with the weakness feeling and the other had a headache for one day. Both kids once vaccinated, my friend twice.

I'm just past 6 months, and it looks like I'm as good as unvaccinated again. Moreover, the government tells you on TV to get a booster but I've checked all but 2 days since I've been eligible for 10 days with no appointment as of yet.

Give it a bit and the craziness will subside.

p1l0t · 12-25-2021, 06:45 PM

Our mayor is double vaxxed, boostered, wears a mask, still got COVID. What a joke. Just live your life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Our mayor is double vaxxed, boostered, wears a mask, still got COVID. What a joke. Just live your life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Who's the mayor there now? I haven't been back to ct in 7 yrs.

p1l0t · 12-25-2021, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Who's the mayor there now? I haven't been back to ct in 7 yrs.

Just a town thing. I have two friends who also got it just after getting boosted. I'm not trying to make it sound they were injected with it or anything but is like WTH.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 07:07 PM

Shit is ridiculous.

Lantanafrs2 · 12-25-2021, 07:08 PM

Seems like half the nfl has it too. Probably 5 percent but seems greater.

spike021 · 12-25-2021, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Our mayor is double vaxxed, boostered, wears a mask, still got COVID. What a joke. Just live your life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

How bad are his symptoms? Is he hospitalized?

12-24-2021, 02:53 PM	#2143
Capt Spaulding Persona Non Grata Join Date: Nov 2015 Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB) Location: On the Border Posts: 1,882 Thanks: 2,016 Thanked 2,782 Times in 1,201 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	It's not surprising that death certificates are unreliable. In Texas a Justice of the Peace (who is an elected, non-legally - and certainly not medically - trained judge) can sign them. Formal autopsies are rare and I would bet even physicians often are often guessing when they attribute a cause. An exact number of covid deaths will, most likely, never be known. Not because they are deliberately fudged, but because the circumstances make it difficult to determine precisely. There are many folks (some here) who still want to downplay the seriousness of the virus. Some may want to play it up for their own reasons. If you want to get legalistic about it, what you want is the "proximate cause" of death. There are a lot ways to think about that. I think the most useful is to ask 'what was the last worst thing that happened and what caused it?" Co-morbidities can play a role, but they are usually not determinative. If I have a heart condition and fluid fills my lungs and my heart stops what killed me is the fluid filling my lungs. If I have a congenitally thin skull (eggshell skull) and you push me down causing me to hit my head fracturing my skull it is the shove that killed me not my fragility. You may have committed manslaughter. For many to most of the patients with preexisting conditions who have suffered covid related deaths you would need to ask yourself "would this person have died, at this moment, if they had not contracted Covid?" If you answer this honestly, I'd bet the number of covid deaths is higher than you'd think. That's why the "excess deaths" approach has the attraction that it does. Using that as a measure is sobering. We may be undercounting the death toll of the pandemic. __________________ Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast

12-24-2021, 05:14 PM	#2145
Capt Spaulding Persona Non Grata Join Date: Nov 2015 Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB) Location: On the Border Posts: 1,882 Thanks: 2,016 Thanked 2,782 Times in 1,201 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	As an example of the difference an excess deaths approach can make, The Economist (not really a politically liberal publication) recently examined the global death toll. The published total globally is 5.4 million. The estimate they published was 18.5 million. (95% CI 12m - 21m). That’s over 3 times the published number. Like I said, sobering. __________________ Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Dating during Covid	Impureclient	Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]	144	08-22-2023 01:33 PM
Covid 19 origin(s)	Lantanafrs2	Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]	280	08-29-2021 01:38 AM
Covid Lockdown Activities	Boomerang	Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]	1471	09-29-2020 04:38 PM

12-25-2021, 12:03 AM	#2146
Lantanafrs2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Drives: 2013 frs red Location: South Florida Posts: 3,562 Thanks: 2,567 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,680 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/healt...ess/index.html Facial decorations?

12-25-2021, 06:25 PM	#2148
Lantanafrs2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Drives: 2013 frs red Location: South Florida Posts: 3,562 Thanks: 2,567 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,680 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Had night sweats during the week and felt like my body was/is fighting something. Woke up today with a sore throat and a congested yet dry feeling in my sinuses. Fully vaxxed so I'm not worried and Walgreens is sold out of test kits lol

12-25-2021, 06:45 PM	#2151
p1l0t Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Hyperblue Location: West Hartford, CT Posts: 8,474 Thanks: 22,731 Thanked 9,435 Times in 4,844 Posts Mentioned: 58 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Our mayor is double vaxxed, boostered, wears a mask, still got COVID. What a joke. Just live your life. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

12-25-2021, 07:07 PM	#2154
Lantanafrs2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Drives: 2013 frs red Location: South Florida Posts: 3,562 Thanks: 2,567 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,680 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Shit is ridiculous.

12-25-2021, 07:08 PM	#2155
Lantanafrs2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Drives: 2013 frs red Location: South Florida Posts: 3,562 Thanks: 2,567 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,680 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Seems like half the nfl has it too. Probably 5 percent but seems greater.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password