Do you think FT-86 will have automatic?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

Oh, not at all!...

It's quite easy to drive a stick if you care about driving. But, as Myka said, many people will just want the 'sporty look' - so Toyota would sell a lot making a comfortable, automatic version for them - and then have the manual be a more focused driver's car for those who want it (the whole package of tighter bushings and firmer suspension, a more powerful / higher revving / at least quicker-revving engine and 6-speed making it the car for 'real drivers'.)

The more Toyota sells, the longer and cheaper it'll stay on the market fr people like me, who won't buy this straight out of the box but probably 6 years from now.

Think about it this way. If lots of autos were sold, they will be cheaper in the used market. Cheaper for you to buy and swap in a manual gearbox. Would you still want to be stuck with a lower performing car? What mazda did with the RX-8 was stupid and if Toyota did that as well it would be just as retarded.

Originally Posted by Myka

Upitty? Is this a real saying?

Anyway, the fact remains that most auto drivers just want a sporty car. You can be the exception. Perhaps you have a Gallardo with e-gear and track it every weekend. However, most people who choose the auto want a better interior, stereo, and ride. They don't care about autocross times. Ultimately, that is the type of person toyota cares about because that type of person sees the car, falls in love, and drives off the lot with it -after they put it in drive that is.

A manual gearbox will always make for a more fun drive in this type of car (light, engaging, tossable, low power). If we are talking about strictly speed and performance, a modern autobox will always be faster shifting and the driver will be able to focus more on the driving and less on shifting. Why do you think open wheeled race cars... heck most race cars in any series worth a damn, use sequential boxes?

Most high end sports cars today you can't even get in manual.

[RegisBou]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Think about it this way. If lots of autos were sold, they will be cheaper in the used market. Cheaper for you to buy and swap in a manual gearbox. Would you still want to be stuck with a lower performing car? What mazda did with the RX-8 was stupid and if Toyota did that as well it would be just as retarded.



A manual gearbox will always make for a more fun drive in this type of car (light, engaging, tossable, low power). If we are talking about strictly speed and performance, a modern autobox will always be faster shifting and the driver will be able to focus more on the driving and less on shifting. Why do you think open wheeled race cars... heck most race cars in any series worth a damn, use sequential boxes?

Most high end sports cars today you can't even get in manual.

Thank you

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

A manual gearbox will always make for a more fun drive in this type of car (light, engaging, tossable, low power). If we are talking about strictly speed and performance, a modern autobox will always be faster shifting and the driver will be able to focus more on the driving and less on shifting. Why do you think open wheeled race cars... heck most race cars in any series worth a damn, use sequential boxes?

Most high end sports cars today you can't even get in manual.

This sort of reasoning is lost on me. This isn't a high-end sports car. Even if it was, there will ALWAYS be something faster.

If you're acknowledging that the manual will be more fun (for all the right reasons), why in this car get a more expensive, less rewarding transmission just to be that tick faster? You'll just get blown away by the next slightly more powerful and expensive car.


As far as Automatics and the used market, I think that it will be a similar situation to the RX-8: they sold a LOT of the manuals, and and they aren't hard at all to find on the used market. In a car like this that reels in enthusiasts, I wouldn't be worried at all about a lack of manuals on the market.
I will say, though, that I was, when i typed it, thinking about the new market 6 years down the road, not used.

[Lexicon101]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Nerves were struck.


Incorrect: I'm bashing him for being a prick -- let's get the story straight here

Haha! That was too easy. I should have checked back on that sooner.
Anyway, I don't drive a '90 civic by choice, idiot.
I'm not one of those assholes who needs a shaft and ball in my hand to feel manly either. I was just making fun of you for bitching.

Have a nice day, Vag.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

This sort of reasoning is lost on me. This isn't a high-end sports car. Even if it was, there will ALWAYS be something faster.

If you're acknowledging that the manual will be more fun (for all the right reasons), why in this car get a more expensive, less rewarding transmission just to be that tick faster? You'll just get blown away by the next slightly more powerful and expensive car.

Did you ever hear me advocating getting an auto? All I said was that there is no reason to give the short end of the stick to who ever would want to buy an auto.

[mrtodd]

Seriously, why are so many people so against the FT-86 coming in automatic form, in addition to the manual 6spd?

It won't affect your/my choice on the matter, since I personally prefer a manual either way. If someone else wants to buy a car with a heavier, more complex tranny that has more parasitic drivetrain power loss and more things to go wrong, that's totally fine by me.

PS - on a sidenote: there still are some SWEET modern supercars that ONLY offer manual gearboxes as opposed to those silly flappy paddle variants..

1 - Pagani Zonda F
2 - Ariel Atom (not a super car, but INSANELY fast nonetheless!)
3 - Porsche Carerra GT
4 - Koenigsegg CCX
5 - Ford GT
6 - Corvette ZR1 (some say it's not a supercar, but, meh, who cares)
etc...

Even so, an opposing list would be easier to come up with, and larger. My only point by making this list is that there are still some awesome, expensive cars out there that only offer a manual gearbox. Sure, a proper sequential gearbox can outperform a manual in terms of sheer shifting speed, but when it comes to road cars it's all really about the driving experience - not lap speed. In my humble opinion, for a daily driven road car, a traditional manual gearbox will always give you the most versatile driving experience.

All that being said, I am very glad the FT-86 is coming in a 6spd standard format, yet I would also VERY WARMLY welcome a silly automatic as well. I think it's pretty stupid to completely reject even the idea of having an auto on an inexpensive performance coupe such as the FT-86. Like MatadorRacing_F1 said, adding an auto variant is only going to increase the FT-86's gene pool (if you will), giving me, the end user, more options when it comes to aftermarket modification.

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

...there is no reason to give the short end of the stick to who ever would want to buy an auto.

In the end, I completely agree.

[MtnDrvr86]

Originally Posted by mrtodd

Seriously, why are so many people so against the FT-86 coming in automatic form, in addition to the manual 6spd?

It won't affect your/my choice on the matter, since I personally prefer a manual either way. If someone else wants to buy a car with a heavier, more complex tranny that has more parasitic drivetrain power loss and more things to go wrong, that's totally fine by me.

PS - on a sidenote: there still are some SWEET modern supercars that ONLY offer manual gearboxes as opposed to those silly flappy paddle variants..

1 - Pagani Zonda F
2 - Ariel Atom (not a super car, but INSANELY fast nonetheless!)
3 - Porsche Carerra GT
4 - Koenigsegg CCX
5 - Ford GT
6 - Corvette ZR1 (some say it's not a supercar, but, meh, who cares)
etc...

Even so, an opposing list would be easier to come up with, and larger. My only point by making this list is that there are still some awesome, expensive cars out there that only offer a manual gearbox. Sure, a proper sequential gearbox can outperform a manual in terms of sheer shifting speed, but when it comes to road cars it's all really about the driving experience - not lap speed. In my humble opinion, for a daily driven road car, a traditional manual gearbox will always give you the most versatile driving experience.

All that being said, I am very glad the FT-86 is coming in a 6spd standard format, yet I would also VERY WARMLY welcome a silly automatic as well. I think it's pretty stupid to completely reject even the idea of having an auto on an inexpensive performance coupe such as the FT-86. Like MatadorRacing_F1 said, adding an auto variant is only going to increase the FT-86's gene pool (if you will), giving me, the end user, more options when it comes to aftermarket modification.




In the end, I completely agree.

[ONE]

I think if Toyota relies only manual transmission for this car, it would obviously create a huge impact on their earnings. No one would buy the damn thing anyways. We're in a world where less and less people even know how to start a standard car. Yes they can learn, but the majority is massive.

The only thing I hope to happen is to see the turbo model/high end model to be standard only. Similar to what they did with the Si and XRS Corolla

[Siriusly.Andrew]

You can get a Corolla XRS with a 5 Speed Auto -- Same goes for the Matrix XRS.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by ONE

I think if Toyota relies only manual transmission for this car, it would obviously create a huge impact on their earnings. No one would buy the damn thing anyways. We're in a world where less and less people even know how to start a standard car. Yes they can learn, but the majority is massive.

The only thing I hope to happen is to see the turbo model/high end model to be standard only. Similar to what they did with the Si and XRS Corolla

Unlikely. Higher price, different target market, Auto would be essential. Now the track model on the other hand......
Better be stick only.

[shiznit]

I've driven nothing but manual since I got my permit 12 years ago but the latest dual-clutch transmissions are very nice. Drove a friend's GTI w/DSG and I really liked it, best of both worlds for 90% of the time. I hear good things about BMW's 7-speed DCT but I haven't tried it yet. The DSG shifts faster than me and matches revs perfectly every time. And when you hit a traffic jam on the interstate just move it to D and save your self the constant N-1-N-1-2-N crap. This will be the main car for many of us, although I don't commute far many do so don't hate if some have bad traffic and prefer auto. If the car comes with a dual-clutch sequential I will take it, that way I can toss the keys to the gf or my parents and not worry if they have learned to heal-toe yet. But if it comes with regular auto then it's manual all the way.

[MtnDrvr86]

Ive said it before, but driving a dual clutch loses its appeal after some time and would end up staying in automatic mode for most of the driving. Its just not as engaging as a manual, no matter how much faster its at shifting or better at rev-matching. Thats where the fun is in driving a manual, being able to do everything yourself, and getting better at. not letting a computer do it for you. of course if they have the rev match feature from the 370z, and is also defeatable, i may consider it.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by MtnDrvr86

Ive said it before, but driving a dual clutch loses its appeal after some time and would end up staying in automatic mode for most of the driving. Its just not as engaging as a manual, no matter how much faster its at shifting or better at rev-matching. Thats where the fun is in driving a manual, being able to do everything yourself, and getting better at. not letting a computer do it for you. of course if they have the rev match feature from the 370z, and is also defeatable, i may consider it.

How many people will buy it "just for fun" as opposed to needing a car that can serve the roll of weekend bomber as well as daily driver?

[MtnDrvr86]

Different people have different needs/wants from their cars. A dual clutch tranny is a viable option for those people, that need a daily driver but can also have fun on the weekends. It was just my opinion on it. I would rather have a manual, but more and more manuafactures are going to dual clutch or single clutch automated manuals.

Toyota had SMT in the MR-S, Mitsubishi has a dual Clutch in the Evo MR, vw/audi have the dsg and s-tronic, mercedes hasnt had a manual in some time, ferrari has their F1 and new dual clutch, BMW had an SMG in the E46 m3 and current m5/6 and a dual clutch in the e9x m3, nissan has one in the GTR. ford even has one in the fiesta, although you cant shift it yourself.