Scion Drops the ball...

[gte]

I can do the body, I just don't want to. At some point, if you want to replace everything, why buy the car ... unless you are buying it to do just that as some sort of grand project? That isn't what I want, I'm looking for a very nice looking awd/rwd sports car, not a multi year project. Something that is a step up from my Corolla, and in between that and my Supras ... aka a perfect daily driver.

Lol at the swallow. I really think this was a bait and switch, it's pretty drastically different, which is why I chose steak/pit beef.

The pics I posted, I don't believe a drastic at all, that car is very buildable. There even appears to be room for the crash/safety equipment that the US requires. I really believe the only "reason" it wasn't buildable was because of the bean counters at Toyota, and they've done far too much dicatation in the past 14 years.

Originally Posted by KAuss

So with all due respect, do you do engine mods without doing the suspension? If you do, then you're really doing it all wrong, if you don't why can't you also do the body? Because aero does serve a purpose also...

There is no telling, maybe one day someone will release a kit to resemble the MKII... That might solve all your problem... Your steak comment is a bit hard to swallow... (yeah I went there LOL) Because that's like saying they put a stock photo of a rib eye up, and the finished product looks different... That IMO is to be expected every time...

The car is still very much the essence of what they presented in concept form, but even I can tell the concept form is WAY too radical to ever make it into production... If you come to expect anything to look like concept, or food products to look like stock photos, then it's really on your expectation that you should blame... The old phrase taking things with a grain of salt is of great help here...

IMO, if you can't see that there is potential to fix all of the issues you've named, then there is no discussion... You're basically just going off on a rant there is nothing anyone here can do for you... I once again understand the frustration, but you have to start listening... There are a lot of nonsense in this thread, but also a lot of sense... You just have to make the car yours after you get over all the down points... This car is focused on drivability, and none of us have even tested THAT out yet... So until that gets put to the test, this car's whole make or break is riding on that and price...

Looks IMO is always subjective, and can always be improved after purchase... Drivability is a harder thing to overcome...



We straight man, no worries I seen your other post...

[gte]

I can agree with all of this, lol!

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

It's OK to feel upset. When I first read about the car before they shown off pics it sounded like they were bringing back the Celica, which I was all for. The way they talked about it, it sounded like it was going to be like the 80's all over again, with the Celica Supra, or even All-Trac. Then things shifted to the 86, which I was fine with again. They focused on weight, handling, affordability they claimed. So I thought that this car can make a good daily commuter then at least. The motor output then got leaked at 200hp and 151tq and thought, yuck, from a motor in 2011 for a 2013 model year car. But the real bombshell came out when Subaru slipped up on the weight of the car a few times which fall between 2700-2800lbs. Toyota is so ashamed of this they didn't release it yet themselves over here since they were hyping it up to be an ultra-light car. This thing will be a dog trying to power out of certain turns you can't carry enough speed into. Then I'm sure the price will be the final bombshell that hits people.

I was hoping to see Toyota get back into the game, get back to their 90's glory days, but this certainly hasn't helped them. If they really are working on a "next-gen Supra", I'm really-really worried about that car. Especially considering that they seem to be going to retirement homes for surveys on what a performance car should be.

[mkivalex]

Originally Posted by gte

The MRS does not debunk anything

I wanted a smaller and lowered powered sexy rwd sports car (compared to the Supra).

They had that, and then they pulled back and didn't deliver, that is my real complaint.

Dude seriously I dont think you belong on this forum, this car was NEVER meant to be a supra replacement, follow up, or anything of that nature, I dont know why you keep talking about it,

The supra was not a small car for its time at all, the TT is almost 3500 lbs that is almost 1000 more than the FRS. The FRS should never be and was never meant to be a supra PERIOD.

I love the supra too, I have a MkIV and I love it, I would love for toyota to bring out something to follow it up, but thats not why I am here, and if thats why you are here, you should seriously rethink yourself.

You keep complaining page after page about how this car is not what you expected nor wanted, so if thats the case, leave it, no one is forcing you to buy it. No matter how hard you complain it isnt magically going to turn into a supra Successor.

To everyone, this car is cheap, the way we ALL wanted, we lost a few features we liked, but dont be surprised to see alot of those pop up as options, whihc in my opinion is perfect. For those of us that want a BARE bones car, there you go, you can have your car without the features to keep the price down and get the DRIVERS car you want, for those who want to spend a few dollars more and get LED headlights, or an upgraded radio, pay for it,and enjoy it.

Scion is very smart by doing what they are doing and if you dont realise it, you are missing the point. Everybody wins, the people who want the car for the car, dont have to pay extra for features they dont want, and people that do want to features can choose them appropriatly.

now FFS can we stop all the bitching, if you dont like the car GTFO.

[gte]

Actually ... been there, done that

http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...ine/index.html

Originally Posted by gt86vx

with your knowledge, make your own new toyota sports car.

[Syldrin]

i can't even wrap my head around this guy. wru ban button.

[gte]

In case it wans't clear, I know it was not meant to be the new Supra. It would be excellent if this filled the role that the 2nd gen Mr2 played to the Supra though. Does that make more sense?

2700 to 2800 pounds is not that impressive with they way that they were touting a light weight car, my Corolla is in the 25xx range, I'm interested to read more details as to why they could not take another 200 pounds off of the cars weight, being that it does not have power everything.

I don't think me making a single thread is a reason to leave the forum and the things that are missing that I've complained about are not just "options" that you can have Scion add on. It would actually be better if they were not options, because it would make the car a little more expensive and unattainable for most high school/college kids.

Originally Posted by mkivalex

Dude seriously I dont think you belong on this forum, this car was NEVER meant to be a supra replacement, follow up, or anything of that nature, I dont know why you keep talking about it,

The supra was not a small car for its time at all, the TT is almost 3500 lbs that is almost 1000 more than the FRS. The FRS should never be and was never meant to be a supra PERIOD.

I love the supra too, I have a MkIV and I love it, I would love for toyota to bring out something to follow it up, but thats not why I am here, and if thats why you are here, you should seriously rethink yourself.

You keep complaining page after page about how this car is not what you expected nor wanted, so if thats the case, leave it, no one is forcing you to buy it. No matter how hard you complain it isnt magically going to turn into a supra Successor.

To everyone, this car is cheap, the way we ALL wanted, we lost a few features we liked, but dont be surprised to see alot of those pop up as options, whihc in my opinion is perfect. For those of us that want a BARE bones car, there you go, you can have your car without the features to keep the price down and get the DRIVERS car you want, for those who want to spend a few dollars more and get LED headlights, or an upgraded radio, pay for it,and enjoy it.

Scion is very smart by doing what they are doing and if you dont realise it, you are missing the point. Everybody wins, the people who want the car for the car, dont have to pay extra for features they dont want, and people that do want to features can choose them appropriatly.

now FFS can we stop all the bitching, if you dont like the car GTFO.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by gte

I wanted a smaller and lowered powered sexy rwd sports car (compared to the Supra).

Not at a projected lower price point of less than 25k. Your wants will never come to fruition in this economy, especially in todays industry. The 86 is a baby step, a very risky baby step in the automotive industry. Which is why many manufacturers are looking at how successful this thing will be because of what was done in the past. They are too afraid of returning to the 80/90s and bringing ruin to their companies because of sports cars.

They had that, and then they pulled back and didn't deliver, that is my real complaint.

They never had it, they never intended to make it bigger than the project itself. What happened was people got too excited, too caught up in their own experiences of modern day performance, and projected their own thoughts and feelings and made a reality that just was not there.

In todays art industry Concept cars are made beautiful because we have better tools vs 20 years ago. However we artists in the auto industry can never translate our beauty 100% because of cost/marketing/production. There are too many variables that imagination has to pass through to become real. By then they have been ripped to shreds and watered down.

So as far as your complaint, its noted. Iv heard this same complaint since 09. On this exact forum, with many new members like yourself. I am going to say your not wrong in your feelings. But be joyful because this car could usher in a new era, even if this is not the car for you. I believe the car you want..is only a few short years away, and it will be everything you want at a good price point.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

O it is complete stubornness lol and I even know that it's completely dumb, but for some reason I just feel this bad connotation with Subaru. And I am not fond of the local Subaru dealers as well.

The bulk of Japanese vehicles sold elsewhere get "toned down" for North America because we demand the lowest price.

[KAuss]

Not liking the dealers is a big deal... I don't have too many local Subaru dealers around here, but the ONE or TWO that are around are really stand up people...

I been to one to purchase my 2002 WRX and the guys that worked there were a part of i-club when I purchased... That was a cool change of pace than your normal we sell this I can care less this is my job type salespeople...

I can see it in that sense, but I unno, if I really wanted something bad enough, I can look past the service side because I usually deal with fleet managers anyways, just email and go pay for the thing...

Every dealer I've worked with has to be awesome because I don't buy off the lot, I buy on the computer screen and demand my car does not have more than 10 miles on it... Usually they have to order me one even though they have one sitting on a lot with 20 miles on it... So yeah, I'm that guy when it comes to spending big bucks lol...

[suprachica79]

Originally Posted by KAuss

Not liking the dealers is a big deal... I don't have too many local Subaru dealers around here, but the ONE or TWO that are around are really stand up people...

I been to one to purchase my 2002 WRX and the guys that worked there were a part of i-club when I purchased... That was a cool change of pace than your normal we sell this I can care less this is my job type salespeople...

I can see it in that sense, but I unno, if I really wanted something bad enough, I can look past the service side because I usually deal with fleet managers anyways, just email and go pay for the thing...

Every dealer I've worked with has to be awesome because I don't buy off the lot, I buy on the computer screen and demand my car does not have more than 10 miles on it... Usually they have to order me one even though they have one sitting on a lot with 20 miles on it... So yeah, I'm that guy when it comes to spending big bucks lol...

Haha, and I will be that girl when it comes to spending big bucks. As I said, this will be my first brand-new car and I want it to be exactly what I want, which is why I am willing to pay for the options I want. Odds are pretty darn high that I will be building mine on a website and having it sent to the dealer as you do as well because as I said, I want it to come exactly how I want it, I'm not paying for extra stuff I don't want or not getting what I do want.

[gt86vx]

toyota built that car not you...

[Syldrin]

byproduct of fan indused hype. people turned this car in what they personally wanted and it spread like wild fire in their respective cliques.

[KAuss]

Imagine for ONE second if Toyobaru played the safe route and made this a FWD...

That is all...

[gte]

I'm happy at 29k or 30k for the car that now doesn't exist and all about the early 90's coming back as that was Toyota's heyday.

If it does usher in more things, I'll be stoked. I still think 14 years is far too long of a hiatus, but something late is better than nothing at all. I really really hope you are right!

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Not at a projected lower price point of less than 25k. Your wants will never come to fruition in this economy, especially in todays industry. The 86 is a baby step, a very risky baby step in the automotive industry. Which is why many manufacturers are looking at how successful this thing will be because of what was done in the past. They are too afraid of returning to the 80/90s and bringing ruin to their companies because of sports cars.



They never had it, they never intended to make it bigger than the project itself. What happened was people got too excited, too caught up in their own experiences of modern day performance, and projected their own thoughts and feelings and made a reality that just was not there.

In todays art industry Concept cars are made beautiful because we have better tools vs 20 years ago. However we artists in the auto industry can never translate our beauty 100% because of cost/marketing/production. There are too many variables that imagination has to pass through to become real. By then they have been ripped to shreds and watered down.

So as far as your complaint, its noted. Iv heard this same complaint since 09. On this exact forum, with many new members like yourself. I am going to say your not wrong in your feelings. But be joyful because this car could usher in a new era, even if this is not the car for you. I believe the car you want..is only a few short years away, and it will be everything you want at a good price point.