Scion FR-S Cover Article in new Road and Track Magazine

[SUB-FT86]

It's funny how some people feel Hyundai wont keep the V6 with a upgraded 2.0T. The power difference between both the 2.0t and V6 will be significant enough because the price difference isn't 5-8k like a Mustang V6 vs V8. Allow me to show you noobs what I mean.

2011 Mustang V6 Base 305 hp $22,900
2011 Mustang V8 412 hp $29,900+ more features also!

Power difference is 107 hp for $7k

2012-13 Genesis coupe 2.0T R-Spec 270 hp $25,500(added 500 for D/I)
2012-13 Genesis coupe 3.8 R-Spec 340 hp $28,500(added 500 for D/I)+ more standard features also!

Power difference is 70 hp for $3k

Now which one offers more power for the money?


My point is? Hyundai isn't stupid, the price will be much closer because the performance isn't going to be a 100+ hp difference.

[82mm 4g63]

Short answer? The Mustang GT.

When you round numbers off and ignore the Base 2.0T to prove your point you're not being fair. Use the actual numbers and available vehicles/engines and try again.

Mustang V6 Base - $23,105 - 305hp
Mustang V8 - $30,105 - 412hp
$7,000 = 107hp = $65.42/hp

GC 2.0T Base - $23,100 - 274hp (+64hp)
GC 3.8 - $27,600 - 333hp (+27)
$4,500 = 59hp = $76.27/hp

Using the current prices for the base GC, you're getting more power for your dollar with the jump from a Mustang V6 to the V8. When you combine the hp/tq per dollar plus the ease of squeezing more performance out of a turbo4 from the GC you would have to be a moron or turbo hater to buy the V6 over the I4.

[Edit ->]
Not to mention the torque increases between the two.

Mustang V6 - 280 lb-ft
Mustang V8 -377 lb-ft
$7,000 = 97 lb-ft = $72/lb-ft

GC I4t - 269 lb-ft
GC V6 - 291 lb-ft
$4,500 = 22 lb-ft = $204/lb-ft

[SUB-FT86]

How in the hell you can say I'm not being fair? If you knew better you would know that Hyundai canceled the base V6 Gencoupe so I was comparing cars with the same package/engine combo.

[SUB-FT86]

And another thing. Did you know that the Genesis sedan and coupe V6 have different horsepower output?? They have different exhaust/intake and tune. The sedan used to had 290hp while the coupe had 306hp. I don't think you have a clue about the GC and I have been on the forum for the damn car since 2008!!!

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

How in the hell you can say I'm not being fair? If you knew better you would know that Hyundai canceled the base V6 Gencoupe so I was comparing cars with the same package/engine combo.

How? You said it yourself, Hyundai canceled the base V6...the base I4t is still available. I'm sorry if GC V6 owners are forced to get a power drivers seat, climate control, and sliding sunroof, but you are already accounting for those features when you said "+ more standard features also!"

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

And another thing. Did you know that the Genesis sedan and coupe V6 have different horsepower output?? They have different exhaust/intake and tune. The sedan used to had 290hp while the coupe had 306hp. I don't think you have a clue about the GC and I have been on the forum for the damn car since 2008!!!

And that matters why exactly? Who mentioned a 290hp engine? We're comparing the current 306hp V6, 210hp I4t, 333hp V6, and 274hp I4t engines. Keep up.

[SUB-FT86]

You know what let's not compare the future cars anymore, lets compare the present since it seems like you can't comprehend a word I'm saying.

The V6 engine made 43 hp with the addition of DIRECT INJECTION just go and look it up.
The V6 engine in the coupe is more efficient than the sedan with the 333hp rating.
You can't compare base vs base with the GC because there is only one base for 2011.
And even in 2010 the horsepower difference for base vs base is 96 hp for a $3k upgrade to a V6.
What I'm trying to say is if the power difference is only 60-70 hp for 3k it will be worth it to some people like me who don't want to have to deal with turbo issues and love the feel of a N/A,

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

blahblahblah

You know what let's not compare the future cars anymore, lets compare the present since it seems like you can't comprehend a word I'm saying.
I can't comprehend a word your saying? Why do you say that, because I'm using actual real world numbers as opposed to your rounded to your convenience numbers and ignoring your off-topic points about the GenSedan's V6?

The V6 engine made 43 hp with the addition of DIRECT INJECTION just go and look it up.
The V6 engine in the coupe is more efficient than the sedan with the 333hp rating.
When was the point HOW they got their numbers? We're talking about the end results. Like I said, keep up.

You can't compare base vs base with the GC because there is only one base for 2011.
Why can't I? Because it proves you wrong? I'm comparing the cheapest I4t to the cheapest V6.

And even in 2010 the horsepower difference for base vs base is 96 hp for a $3k upgrade to a V6.
Yes, using the current production GC's, the jump between engine options is cheaper for GC owners than Mustang owners. That was never a point of disagreement, the next engine refreshes were.

Mustang V6 Base - $23,105 - 305hp
Mustang V8 - $30,105 - 412hp
$7,000 = 107hp = $65.42/hp

GC 2.0T Base - $23,100 - 210hp
GC 3.8 - $27,600 - 306hp
$4,500 = 96hp = $46.87/hp <----Winner

What I'm trying to say is if the power difference is only 60-70 hp for 3k it will be worth it to some people like me who don't want to have to deal with turbo issues and love the feel of a N/A,
Personal bias towards turbos aside, paying $4500 for 59hp is silly. If they close the gap between the I4t and V6 performance wise, they're going to do the same with their prices. I wouldn't be surprised if they left the V6 prices the same and jacked up the I4t's price up another $2000 to get the $/hp number back where it currently is. Of course, this is all assuming they put the Sonata engine in the GC.

[SUB-FT86]

You clearly don't understand logics. The 4,500 difference is because of.

An engine upgrade
Brembo Brake Upgrade
18'' w/ winter tires vs 19'' w/summer tires
LSD
Track Tuned Suspension
Fogs
Leather with cloth inserts
ACC

This is why I compared the 2.0T R Spec to it so it could be "FAIR" for christ sakes!!

If I did the same thing with a Mustang base V6 vs the sport model V8 the price difference would be at least a $9.5k difference.

[Ryuu0u]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

I couldn't agree more, 200hp regardless of whether its NA or FI is a very unexciting number. However, the beauty of a turbocharged car like the GC is their responsiveness to aftermarket parts. Drop $1k in a GC and you're up to 235whp, $4k and you're up over 310whp, $6500 and you're over 400whp. Throw the same amount of cash at an 2.0 NA and you'd be lucky to get half that output.

Well im fine with the mark for the FRS to be around 200hp for a 2.0 since it kinda falls into the realm of small and sporty like the s2k and miata. The GC having a turbo and only putting that much out seems weak for a turbo engine to me. Yeah there is a growing aftermarket for the 2.0 GC but reading some GenCoupe forums there is a huge trade off when even touching it. Ive read ppl having problems just flashing the ecu, and some having dropped from 20ish to 12ish mpg just from small mods and unknown reasons. From what ive read you cant even touch above 350ish with out first redoing the internals since they are made of glass. $11.5k just for 400whp is probably on the shallow side of a 2.0t built engine when considering Ive read up on some S2k's that have made 500hp with stock internals(i cant vouch for reliability but you can see some running fine on s2ki). Not saying the 2.0 GC is a bad car but it just needs more attention compared to other engines; id rather get the v6 anyways and save some headache. I really considered a GC for my next car but after reading some of their forums id rather w8 for the FRS where i would maybe anticipate some quirks but i would not really expect them.

[SUB-FT86]

You can't take a Honda Civic DX and say " Let me add the Si package to it so it can be a stripper model base" The R-Spec V6 has better brakes,wheels,suspension and a LSD that a Grand Touring Model GC doesn't have. In order to be a base it must be bare bones. The 3.8 R Spec is not!

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You clearly don't understand logics. The 4,500 difference is because of.

An engine upgrade
Brembo Brake Upgrade
18'' w/ winter tires vs 19'' w/summer tires
LSD
Track Tuned Suspension
Fogs
Leather with cloth inserts
ACC

This is why I compared the 2.0T R Spec to it so it could be "FAIR" for christ sakes!!

If I did the same thing with a Mustang base V6 vs the sport model V8 the price difference would be at least a $9.5k difference.

lol

You're not into aftermarket parts are you?

The Brembo's would be coming off to make room for either Rotora or Stoptech.
The 19" factory wheels would be replaced with lightweight 17-18".
The OE Torsen LSD would be replaced with a Kaaz 1.5way.
Not sure which suspension I'm looking at yet, but not the OE "track tuned" McPhersons
I live in Florida, Leather is not a good thing. Not to mention factory seats are coming out regardless of their covers material.
No interest in fog lights.

So again I say, I'm sorry V6 owners are forced to spend extra money on things that are just going to be replaced anyway. I don't know about you, but I'm buying a tuner car, a blank canvas. I can get that car with the I4t variety for $23,100. If I wanted the V6 version I would be forced to spend money on a package I don't want. Because Hyundai wants to make all your aftermarket decisions for you on the V6, means I have to compare it to the equally equipped 2.0? No

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You can't take a Honda Civic DX and say " Let me add the Si package to it so it can be a stripper model base" The R-Spec V6 has better brakes,wheels,suspension and a LSD that a Grand Touring Model GC doesn't have. In order to be a base it must be bare bones. The 3.8 R Spec is not!

See above.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Ryuu0u

Well im fine with the mark for the FRS to be around 200hp for a 2.0 since it kinda falls into the realm of small and sporty like the s2k and miata. The GC having a turbo and only putting that much out seems weak for a turbo engine to me. Yeah there is a growing aftermarket for the 2.0 GC but reading some GenCoupe forums there is a huge trade off when even touching it. Ive read ppl having problems just flashing the ecu, and some having dropped from 20ish to 12ish mpg just from small mods and unknown reasons. From what ive read you cant even touch above 350ish with out first redoing the internals since they are made of glass. $11.5k just for 400whp is probably on the shallow side of a 2.0t built engine when considering Ive read up on some S2k's that have made 500hp with stock internals(i cant vouch for reliability but you can see some running fine on s2ki). Not saying the 2.0 GC is a bad car but it just needs more attention compared to other engines; id rather get the v6 anyways and save some headache. I really considered a GC for my next car but after reading some of their forums id rather w8 for the FRS where i would maybe anticipate some quirks but i would not really expect them.

This is somewhat wrong info!!!

You saw the results of guys who called themselves "tuners".
There is kits for the 2.0t turbo guys that runs up to 3k with a upgrade job done to the turbo itself that makes 330 whp. There is a company(LoveFab) who had a kit for sale with 380 whp on stock internals and they drove the damn thing for months but they did say the engine would need to be upgaded internally after 400 whp for good measure. There is a 310 whp 2.0t running high 12's on youtube.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

lol

You're not into aftermarket parts are you?

The Brembo's would be coming off to make room for either Rotora or Stoptech.
The 19" factory wheels would be replaced with lightweight 17-18".
The OE Torsen LSD would be replaced with a Kaaz 1.5way.
Not sure which suspension I'm looking at yet, but not the OE "track tuned" McPhersons
I live in Florida, Leather is not a good thing. Not to mention factory seats are coming out regardless of their covers material.
No interest in fog lights.

So again I say, I'm sorry V6 owners are forced to spend extra money on things that are just going to be replaced anyway.



See above

I was only explaining costs differences and you avoided my point.

I also think Stoptech is so overrated. I saw a video of the ST brakes on a GC and it stopped poorly compared to the BBK

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I was only explaining costs differences and you avoided my point.

I know why the R-Spec is more than the Base, that's not the point of our disagreement. I also know why you compared the I4t Rspec to the V6 Rspec, because you can't compare a Base I4t to a Base V6. That's not the I4t's fault, yell at Hyundai for forcing the Rspec package on you with the V6.

There is a $4,500 difference between the bottom of the barrel I4t and V6.