Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[mhigham]

Originally Posted by Le86

Good luck, sir. My ECU was order on the 3rd and they JUST called me today to confirm deliver on next Tuesday, the 31st.

Thanks! I have been patient but I have really just lost all interest in this car. Im not even excited to get it back, its just another plain car that I want to get rid of at the moment. Add to the fact when I do get it back, ECU might (likely) not even be the fix.

My next question is going to be can they just pull one out of a car sitting on the lot? My thought is its probably bad too and they are knowingly going to sell it like that. I think we will find out this is much closer to a 100% fail rate that first believed. I do R&D for a major OEM and this kind of failure either is or isnt - ECUs are built to very rigourous standards and never fail unless abused.

[jduffy]

Originally Posted by mhigham

ECUs are built to very rigourous standards and never fail unless abused.

How does one abuse an ECU?

[mhigham]

Originally Posted by jduffy

How does one abuse an ECU?

In testing - we abuse them during testing with things like higher current injectors or off scale dwell rates. In normal operation, there is no abuse. Unless its a bad cal which is causing an out-of-spec situation but I doubt that too.

[Plxdjake89]

I'm truly sorry for all of you having problems, my car was acting up at one point and now it's running just fine. I believe if you all had patience and let them take care of you ( Subaru or Toyota ) you would enjoy this car, just like me. Again, sorry for all you quitters

[jesperswe]

Originally Posted by mhigham

I do R&D for a major OEM and this kind of failure either is or isnt - ECUs are built to very rigourous standards and never fail unless abused.

Yeah what causes some cars to have failure and some does not fail at all?
It's the same ECU in all cars and the same software. What the hell gets out of order on some cars, and why does it? I have a hard time believing Toyobarus "first 100miles your ECU learns your driving and then it's done"....

[DieselxIndustry]

Originally Posted by mhigham

Got my "update" today from Scion. They will call next Friday with any updates they might have, but as of now there are no ecu's and no expected ETA from Japan.

Dealer has now had the car longer than I have, sitting there lot rotting. I think I am going to do a buyback and move onto an ST Focus.

Mike

Like I said in my post a few pages back, don't believe them that there are no ECU's and that they "Have to come from Japan." I scheduled my chirp fix and to have them determine if the ECU was to be replaced for the CEL/SL on 10/22. They over nighted the ECU and I had the car back 10/24. Some dealers have got to be pulling the BS card because mine got it taken care of.

[mx5apex]

Originally Posted by jesperswe

Yeah what causes some cars to have failure and some does not fail at all?
It's the same ECU in all cars and the same software. What the hell gets out of order on some cars, and why does it? I have a hard time believing Toyobarus "first 100miles your ECU learns your driving and then it's done"....

This would lead me to believe that the vvt cam gears are made with varying tolerances that vary too much. Some cars get a cam gear that's too tight and has problems while others get cam gears that have tolerances that work well. I'm no engineer or mechanic, just trying to think this problem through with logic.

[ftc~brz]

Originally Posted by Le86

You've been plenty more patient than I have and hopefully it plays out to your favor.

Not much I can do really. It's my daily driver and I fell in love at first sight/drive. But then I know I'm not the only one. It's frustrating because all we really want is to have a dependable fun car that we have all been waiting a long time for. We all expected little quirky issues that is the right of passage when buying a first year platform. None of us expected catostrophic failures or endless weeks of service time. I have several scars to remind me life is short. Now my car does too. In my favor or not, It's a lesson in life.

[xwd]

People get the CEL on both cold and warmed up engines.

The AVCS/VVTi sensors do not monitor oil pressure they monitor the position of the cam. The oil control valves have a valve in them which is opened in one direction or the other to either retard or advance the cam, or it just closes to maintain the current position. The ECU knows approximately how much to move the valve to change the position but relies on the sensors for feedback. My guess is something is machined incorrectly in the sprockets/OCV which is causing the cam to either not advance enough or advance too much, and then things start to go awry. I've always thought it had more to do with when the cam needs to be retarded again because the issue happens at idle, I have yet to hear of a case where the issue really causes an issue at speed or WOT.

The car itself has no way to monitor oil pressure, it just has the idiot switch/light you mentioned. Subaru engines run relatively high oil pressure.

If it was truly an oil pressure problem we'd be hearing about a lot of spun bearings, with the high oil pressure the cars run any kind of low pressure can wreak havok very quickly. Especially with the 0w-20 oil they use in the engines from the factory, it is like water. I've read a couple instances of oil pressure problems on fixed cars but it has been due to the mechanics who replaced the sprockets screwing something up.

[JohnS_Rosamond]

I agree, it seems that the fault has more to do with the VVT cams than strictly low oil pressure alone. I think that this is why some of the "fix" for engines with CEL included at least one new cam actuator. I think that if it were strictly a low oil pressure problem we'd see more engines affected. I also agree with others who have stated that the ECU reflash has something to do with an increase in the computer's tolerance levels for actautors, and sampling parameters.

[Sean K.]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

What if users just started using a slight heavier weight oil such as 5W or even the old standard, 10W? What if Toyota/Subaru did a recall and replaced the oil pumps with a higher volume/pressure model?
Any thoughts?

If you did it on your own.....and Toyota/Subaru found out about it....they could conceivably use it as an excuse to void your warranty. There's a lot of "ifs" in that statement....something would have to fail, you'd have to bring it in to the dealer, the mfr would have to find out you'd not followed the spec, the change in oil weight would have to be directly attributable to the problem exhibited, etc.

As others have said, I doubt the oil weight is the issue here.....

Unfortunately, I think we are all in the boat of waiting on Subaru to figure out what the problem is with their engine.

I wish they'd hurry up.....the wife is ready to buy a new car, I'm ready to get one too....and we both like the BRZ....but until they get this sorted out, we're not touching this one.

The only plus side is we're looking at a Lotus Elise instead....but the practicality of that car is markedly less than the BRZ for us....so it REALLY doesn't make sense.

Sean

[jduffy]

Originally Posted by Sean K.

I wish they'd hurry up.....the wife is ready to buy a new car, I'm ready to get one too....and we both like the BRZ....but until they get this sorted out, we're not touching this one.

Please don't get this car, I like the exclusivity! I still haven't seen another one on the road here.

Go for the Elise, you'll probably enjoy the same exclusivity that I am enjoying everyday.

[MikesFRS]

I miss my car......

[mbaexec]

mbaexec, FR-S, 260, 7079XX , ECU on order (according to the dealer) , Bethesda, MD US