CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by yomny

Are they really that much better than FA, real..They're on the top range of my budget and don't even have top hats or adjustability to damping. I don't mind because i could always use the factory and adjust camber with bolts. Camber plates would should the price over the 2k with these.

Our coilovers use a slotted lower mount for camber adjustability so you get plenty of camber with stock top mounts.

The T0 are essentially a "preset" Tarmac 2 coilover.

- Andy

[Calum]

Originally Posted by yomny

Are they really that much better than FA, real..They're on the top range of my budget and don't even have top hats or adjustability to damping. I don't mind because i could always use the factory and adjust camber with bolts. Camber plates would should the price over the 2k with these.

The fact that they don't have adjustable damping isn't a bad thing. Designing and manufacturing the needle valves to give consistent and repeatable results is very expensive. The valves you get on cheap dampers are just that, cheap. Even if you know what your doing in setting up your dampers, using low end adjusters will make it next to impossible to get them set well.

Ask yourself this, are you looking for bragging rights "I've got 32 different levels of damping adjustment." Or are you looking to make a fast car faster? The T0's will still get you the height adjustment and the extra clearance, and they have the added benefit of damping that's set correctly right out of the box.

Oh, and there's no way you're going to get 32 levels of damping from one of those cheap valves. There might be 32 clicks to it, but it's not going to give 32 different measurable damping levels. FA has 24, which is a little more realistic, but still not actually realistic.

[yomny]

I rather get a good part thats properly done right the first time. I'm not a pro, by far that. Its also hard to find a good company that does something correct with reliable R&D behind their product and not just a copy of this or that. I don't mind the adjustability because most times i set it in one spot and leave it. I just wanted to make sure they're worth the money since i am giving up the adjustment and top hats. I know top hats just create more noise with the trade off of camber adjustability. I'll do some research and see if i could find good reviews. Definitely will keep them in mind. Glad to hear from Racecomp, i know they're a good reputable company.

[finch1750]

@Racecomp Engineering @CSG Mike

I just got a recent alignment after installing Whiteline rear UCA camber bushings. I also had to replace two tires (currently on the rear) as I got a nail near the sidewall. My current settings are

Front Camber: -2.2
Front Toe: 0
Caster: Left 5.7 Right 6.4

Rear Camber: Left -1.5 Right -1.7
Rear Toe: .08

My previous settings had the front the same but rear camber was at -2 and toe was zero all around. When I went out today to test drive the car feels extremely twitchy. The front feels like there is a ton there but the rear was constantly trying to step out. The traction light was even kicking on under hard braking. I know I am going slower than before as I drive this particular road often. Did taking out -.5 camber in the rear really change it that much? Is the toe causing this as well? Is it simply I need more driver mod (only first year auto-x driver)? I loved the way the car handled last alignment and am wondering where it all went wrong. I thought more camber in the front than the rear would be better but now I think similar front and rear is best at these camber specs (its on my high end as I DD with high mileage, but I know they are on the low end of performance camber)

FYI I am on RCE Yellows with Whiteline rear subframe bushings as the only other suspension mods.

[karlsson]

If this was your first drive with new rear tires, couldn't it just be due to residue from the release agent that is used to get the tires out of the baking mould?
It usually takes up to 150km to get that stuff off.
Everytime I got new tires it felt like driving on fresh snow the first 50km or so.

[yomny]

@CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering

Most of the times higher priced coilover kits are better, the cost reflects the parts used and research/testing for our application. My question to you would be which coilover would be better suited my spirited driving street use, and once a month HPDE. I've been looking at your Tarmac 0, Bilstein B14 and ST coilovers. Neither of these will have adjustable camber plates. Which is better valved for the offered spring rates. I want a more professional insightful opinion, maybe information you know that i haven't caught. Why some use even spring rates, other use a softer on rear while others use stiffer on rear like Bilstein. Thanks a bunch.

Aside from my question i wanted to thank you for doing this Q&A, it truly helps and shows your commitment to our community which at least to me is a major deciding factor when purchasing(got my pads from CSG ) Thanks.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by karlsson

If this was your first drive with new rear tires, couldn't it just be due to residue from the release agent that is used to get the tires out of the baking mould?
It usually takes up to 150km to get that stuff off.
Everytime I got new tires it felt like driving on fresh snow the first 50km or so.

That was a thought and why I mentioned it. I whope thats the case and once they are scrubbed in a bit it gets better.

[MINOCIN]

Originally Posted by finch1750

@Racecomp Engineering @CSG Mike

I just got a recent alignment after installing Whiteline rear UCA camber bushings. I also had to replace two tires (currently on the rear) as I got a nail near the sidewall. My current settings are

Front Camber: -2.2
Front Toe: 0
Caster: Left 5.7 Right 6.4

Rear Camber: Left -1.5 Right -1.7
Rear Toe: .08

My previous settings had the front the same but rear camber was at -2 and toe was zero all around. When I went out today to test drive the car feels extremely twitchy. The front feels like there is a ton there but the rear was constantly trying to step out.The traction light was even kicking on under hard braking. I know I am going slower than before as I drive this particular road often. Did taking out -.5 camber in the rear really change it that much? Is the toe causing this as well? Is it simply I need more driver mod (only first year auto-x driver)? I loved the way the car handled last alignment and am wondering where it all went wrong. I thought more camber in the front than the rear would be better but now I think similar front and rear is best at these camber specs (its on my high end as I DD with high mileage, but I know they are on the low end of performance camber)

FYI I am on RCE Yellows with Whiteline rear subframe bushings as the only other suspension mods.

I have a similar alignment: -2.2 up front, -1.5 rear and 0 toe all around and the car does not feel twitchy. However, I'm no longer on stock dampeners but I am on stock bushings.

My car is lowered by 1 inch with RSR Sports-i coilovers, has 225 RS3s tires on 7.5" wide wheels all around, a Whiteline 16mm rear sway bar set to full stiff, and is Innovate Supercharged w/ a stage 2 tune.

My car does not feel twitchy on the street, canyons or on the track. The rear doesn't feels like it's going to snap away from me, and under hard breaking in a straight line the chassis is composed. At most, the car will shimmy when breaking too hard over a rough patch of pavement. Actually, one of the reason why I added the rear swaybar was to give the car back its playful nature. I modded my suspension before going FI and it felt like I always had good grip as long as I didn't make any mistakes and upset the car. After adding more power it felt the same except that I had to learn throttle input as opposed to just always flooring it

Are you running the same tire as before or did you switch to another brand &/or model? What tire and wheel combo are you running? I too agree that new tires can sometimes make a car feel a little twitchy, but not extremely twitchy. Hopefully the problem disappears after the tires are broken in. However, I always thought that less negative camber was supposed to be better for braking?

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by MINOCIN

I have a similar alignment: -2.2 up front, -1.5 rear and 0 toe all around and the car does not feel twitchy. However, I'm no longer on stock dampeners but I am on stock bushings.

My car is lowered by 1 inch with RSR Sports-i coilovers, has 225 RS3s tires on 7.5" wide wheels all around, a Whiteline 16mm rear sway bar set to full stiff, and is Innovate Supercharged w/ a stage 2 tune.

My car does not feel twitchy on the street, canyons or on the track. The rear doesn't feels like it's going to snap away from me, and under hard breaking in a straight line the chassis is composed. At most, the car will shimmy when breaking too hard over a rough patch of pavement. Actually, one of the reason why I added the rear swaybar was to give the car back its playful nature. I modded my suspension before going FI and it felt like I always had good grip as long as I didn't make any mistakes and upset the car. After adding more power it felt the same except that I had to learn throttle input as opposed to just always flooring it

Are you running the same tire as before or did you switch to another brand &/or model? What tire and wheel combo are you running? I too agree that new tires can sometimes make a car feel a little twitchy, but not extremely twitchy. Hopefully the problem disappears after the tires are broken in. However, I always thought that less negative camber was supposed to be better for braking?

I am on the same tires as before - 225/45 Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole positions on stock wheels. The fronts are about 1/2 through their tread life.

Part of it could also be the stiffer bushings and the road I drive is far from the smoothest. Combine that with the new tires and maybe they were having that much more difficult a time. It only did it a couple times under braking and now that I think about it that was the bumpier section. Just never had that happen before so it worried me combined with the lack of rear grip.

I'm going out of town today and will drive the same road on the way back and see what happens. I will have over 200 miles on the new tires at that point.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by yomny

@CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering

Most of the times higher priced coilover kits are better, the cost reflects the parts used and research/testing for our application. My question to you would be which coilover would be better suited my spirited driving street use, and once a month HPDE. I've been looking at your Tarmac 0, Bilstein B14 and ST coilovers. Neither of these will have adjustable camber plates. Which is better valved for the offered spring rates. I want a more professional insightful opinion, maybe information you know that i haven't caught. Why some use even spring rates, other use a softer on rear while others use stiffer on rear like Bilstein. Thanks a bunch.

Aside from my question i wanted to thank you for doing this Q&A, it truly helps and shows your commitment to our community which at least to me is a major deciding factor when purchasing(got my pads from CSG ) Thanks.

Well, how willing are you to learn how to adjust your car? Once a month at a HPDE is more than what 99% of the community will see, so you may want to consider a slightly more serious setup liket he KW V3 or RCE T2.

This will give you the opportunity to learn how to dial in the dampers, and also flexibility in changing the spring rates (which will make you re-dial the dampers).

I'd recommend getting camber plates and LCAs before dampers, if they cannot be done all at once. Consider the dampers you may possibly get before committing to a camber plate, to make sure you can use your chosen camber plates on the dampers you will eventually get.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by finch1750

@Racecomp Engineering @CSG Mike

I just got a recent alignment after installing Whiteline rear UCA camber bushings. I also had to replace two tires (currently on the rear) as I got a nail near the sidewall. My current settings are

Front Camber: -2.2
Front Toe: 0
Caster: Left 5.7 Right 6.4

Rear Camber: Left -1.5 Right -1.7
Rear Toe: .08

My previous settings had the front the same but rear camber was at -2 and toe was zero all around. When I went out today to test drive the car feels extremely twitchy. The front feels like there is a ton there but the rear was constantly trying to step out. The traction light was even kicking on under hard braking. I know I am going slower than before as I drive this particular road often. Did taking out -.5 camber in the rear really change it that much? Is the toe causing this as well? Is it simply I need more driver mod (only first year auto-x driver)? I loved the way the car handled last alignment and am wondering where it all went wrong. I thought more camber in the front than the rear would be better but now I think similar front and rear is best at these camber specs (its on my high end as I DD with high mileage, but I know they are on the low end of performance camber)

FYI I am on RCE Yellows with Whiteline rear subframe bushings as the only other suspension mods.

Is that 0.08 toe out? That will cause instability...

Also, do you have parts that will let you easily match the alignments left and right? Alternatively, do you have access to a specialized shop that would let you do such a thing?

[yomny]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, how willing are you to learn how to adjust your car? Once a month at a HPDE is more than what 99% of the community will see, so you may want to consider a slightly more serious setup liket he KW V3 or RCE T2.

This will give you the opportunity to learn how to dial in the dampers, and also flexibility in changing the spring rates (which will make you re-dial the dampers).

I'd recommend getting camber plates and LCAs before dampers, if they cannot be done all at once. Consider the dampers you may possibly get before committing to a camber plate, to make sure you can use your chosen camber plates on the dampers you will eventually get.

So the T2's are dual adjustable, i just need to get some camber plates for full adjustability up front, LCA's and the bushings for the rear upper arm? I'm pretty determined to learn, i do lots of research and read a fair amount of articles regarding suspension geometry and adjustability of compression/rebound. I guess there's no shortcut, just save money and get the right stuff. What do you recommend as far as spring rates go for mostly street driving? With your t2 can i upgrade later on with swift springs, im assuming that would require the proper upper mount? Thanks

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by yomny

So the T2's are dual adjustable, i just need to get some camber plates for full adjustability up front, LCA's and the bushings for the rear upper arm? I'm pretty determined to learn, i do lots of research and read a fair amount of articles regarding suspension geometry and adjustability of compression/rebound. I guess there's no shortcut, just save money and get the right stuff. What do you recommend as far as spring rates go for mostly street driving? With your t2 can i upgrade later on with swift springs, im assuming that would require the proper upper mount? Thanks

Start with the recommended 400/400, and I can recommend adjustments in the future based on your feedback. PM us for a quote!

[Panman]

@CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering I currently have STI Pink (20mm Drop <1" ) springs on standard shocks/struts If I was to look at Bilsteins would I be better off looking at B6 or B8 as I want to keep the pinks?