BOYCOTT Scion's FIRST 86 Sign-Up List

[Aki]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

This thread is not literally a "boycott." I am posting an alert to keep the First 86 data honest. Just so everyone is aware and on the same page. We may even drive the price down for the good of our community by not signing up. If you have differing opinions, please feel free to discuss.

The chance of the FR-S price changing based on sign-ups:

Zero. Zilch. None.

People who sign up early are by nature the most diehard. They will not base pricing structure on a tiny niche of enthusiasts, that's plainly ridiculous. Plus signing up is free, and doesn't indicate how many will actually buy the car. The purpose of this is more to drive interest and market the car, not to gauge what the final pricing should be.

The FR-S/GT 86 has already been established as a sort of reverse halo car. In other words, profit margin isn't as important as establishing Toyota/Scion being a youthful, enthusiast-appealing brand. Scion isn't in a place to leverage price, either, considering the badge is languishing/dying.

[daphaze1]

Ditto, I don't think anyone in their right mind would purchase a BrZ over the Scion as a daily, depending on how much by price. But if I plan on keeping it for awhile and not tracking it, might as well get a Brz. I'd enjoy it more. It'd be nice to at least be the first to test drive =D.

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Why? it doesn't cost anything to sign up. If I won I was going to pay the deposit but make my decision after pricing is announced. I'm leaning towards the BRZ, but if I do end up deciding to get the FRS, why not enter this contest and get it early? I'm sure a lot of people who were selected for the first 86 will end up not buying it, which just means more of us will get the chance.

[switchlanez]

^IMO the BRZ would be a better primary daily driver car and FR-S makes for a better secondary/track day car. BRZ offers standard or optional: dual climate control, leather seats, controls on steering wheel, navi, and push button start. And I believe its ride settings are less harsh. I'd rather live with those amenities everyday assuming price difference justifies the extras (which it should). People might swap BRZ parts into their FR-S later which usually costs more (because you paid for your old part already, paid markup for the new part, and may pay for installation) than buying a car already equipped from the factory.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^IMO the BRZ would be a better primary daily driver car and FR-S makes for a better secondary/track day car. BRZ offers standard or optional: dual climate control, leather seats, controls on steering wheel, navi, and push button start. And I believe its ride settings are less harsh. I'd rather live with those amenities everyday assuming price difference justifies the extras (which it should).

Totally agree, but I a less is more kind of guy. I like the no frills other then nav that the FRS offers, which is great because if I'm driving 2+ hours from my home, I am going to get lost. For 99% of the world however, you are right.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by daphaze1

Ditto, I don't think anyone in their right mind would purchase a BrZ over the Scion as a daily, depending on how much by price. But if I plan on keeping it for awhile and not tracking it, might as well get a Brz. I'd enjoy it more. It'd be nice to at least be the first to test drive =D.

Huh?

[bambbrose]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Huh?

LOL, oxymoron? That post hurts my brain

[GT-86]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

According to the Toyota Production System (TPS) or lean manufacturing, car makers stock a couple weeks of parts at most and order more as needed. Hoarding 3 months of parts costs millions in overhead because of the real estate it occupies (bad practice by the Big Three in the '70s til they adopted Toyota's method). Just some things I remember as a TPS-certified manufacturing engineer co-op at a Toyota plant. Also, recent press releases still show production prototypes. They were pilot run through the assembly line with minor parts not yet finalized (missing wheel well/underbody linings, interior bits seem inconsistent in publications). Production can’t start til these minor nuisances are sorted out. With the prototype done, Toyota just about wrapped up its complete parts list; now its suppliers need a couple months lead time to prep for the big production run. It takes a lot longer to prep for manufacturing than to manufacture the car itself. When the redesigned Tacoma launched, production at the plant started under 2 months before its launch. Considering the Tacoma is a much higher volume vehicle than the 86, the 86 would require less lead time. It takes a couple days to fill the assembly line from start to end. Once the line was full we'd build out 1 car (Tacoma, Corolla, Vibe) per minute (24 hours a day, 5 days a week). This approximates to a hypothetical 3.5 week turnaround time for 20,000 FR-Ss.

good lord engineers.

every business class talks about Toyota legendary production system. the point i was making without going into details and quoting books and internships is that like you've said "With the prototype done, Toyota just about wrapped up its complete parts list; now its suppliers need a couple months lead time to prep for the big production run." which is right now if production begins in March, the cars were seeing are called Q.T.S. cars. after all the test drives and road tests they will be re-evaluated for any needed changes before the first run.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I worked in the paint department; we definitely did NOT store paint in cans lol. Dealers around the world don’t need 6 months to order configurations (colors, transmissions, etc.). Thanks to TPS, Toyota receives needed parts overnight (usually same day) since suppliers tend to cluster around any given Toyota plant. Orders from the customer (the dealerships) are taken around a month in advance and parts are stocked at the factory 2 weeks before they're assembled in a complete car. This is why Toyota beat the Big Three; they responded to demand faster and better.

never said they did (paint). why not bring up as to why toyota manufacturing chooses certain areas to build their plant and its correlation to its parts suppliers, which you brought up somewhat.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

If production starts in late March, Scion has quite some time to figure out what configurations to order. They’d be stupid not to use the First 86 data to help with that, especially since configuration preference appeared on the First 86 order form. BTW since it was done online, the 8 hour 6 minute time window is actually 11 hours 6 minutes considering Eastern/Pacific time zones; more if you include Alaska/Hawaii.

true, they could use the data they collected from the site to determine what transmission and colors to build more of. here's the but, they've already knew way ahead of time what colors they were going to have available and they know what colors sell well in their markets. if a market likes darker colors they are not going bombard them with lighter colors. here's a question for you since you were an intern in the paint dept of a toyota plant. did they tell you how long it takes a paint to be approved by toyota before it even goes on a car? in regards to the transmission they already know through build supply what % will be built in manuals vs. autos per country and region. for the united states i would think 60/40 where for the U.K. it would be more 90/10.

time zones? omg...

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Huh?

i dont even

but if you buy brz, i mean frs, but, that means.... no wait... err, ummm.......

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^IMO the BRZ would be a better primary daily driver car and FR-S makes for a better secondary/track day car. BRZ offers standard or optional: dual climate control, leather seats, controls on steering wheel, navi, and push button start. And I believe its ride settings are less harsh. I'd rather live with those amenities everyday assuming price difference justifies the extras (which it should). People might swap BRZ parts into their FR-S later which usually costs more (because you paid for your old part already, paid markup for the new part, and may pay for installation) than buying a car already equipped from the factory.

I think push button start isn't standard or something? The CES video guy says it's only in "limited edition" or something, or maybe I'm just going insane.

In the US I think Scion makes the choice a bit difficult. The BRZ might have too many amenities for the typical sports car driver (dual zone climate control seriously? I guess the extra dial looks cool.), the but Scion interior is a massive step down... I hope Subaru has some "track edition" offering or something like that to fill in the gap because Scion's starting point is too low.

[Capt Canuck]

Apart from the difference in the firmness of the ride, there is nothing that should make the FR-S/BRZ a better daily driving experience if comparing ones with the same gearbox.

How coddled are folks these days, that anyone could confuse the FR-S as a spartan driving experience?

[serialk11r]

Maybe it's the Scion badge that deteriorates the daily driving experience for people

But in all seriousness, I guess a serious car needs a serious badge. Image matters!

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I think push button start isn't standard or something? The CES video guy says it's only in "limited edition" or something, or maybe I'm just going insane.

In the US I think Scion makes the choice a bit difficult. The BRZ might have too many amenities for the typical sports car driver (dual zone climate control seriously? I guess the extra dial looks cool.), the but Scion interior is a massive step down... I hope Subaru has some "track edition" offering or something like that to fill in the gap because Scion's starting point is too low.

The only difference between a scion fr-s and a BRZ premium is the hid headlights. Well BRZ has their navi and fr-s has bespoke.

[ajkl]

My guess is that they'll use the signup info to skew how many of what color and trans combinations to ship to each regions distribution centers,

[switchlanez]

^Nice observation buddy but I was like 10 steps ahead of you lol. Well before anyone had even seen any sign-up forms for First 86 I predicted this...

Originally Posted by switchlanez

First 86 will provide greater resolution as to which dealerships within each region should get X cars with Y colors and Z configurations. It's a supplement to any dealership waiting lists already going on (but not all dealerships do waiting lists). This supplemental info is critical as stock coming from Japan will be extremely limited.

So if First 86 asks you to specify your color, transmission, etc., you can almost expect one to be delivered to a dealership by your home.