Why doesnt Toyota make its own motor for the FT-86?? - Page 13 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

NESW20 · 03-18-2010, 12:41 AM

near Valencia/Palmdale. great roads with little to no traffic! i won't name them publicly though...

-Mike

ddoouugg · 03-25-2010, 07:38 PM

ooo. Care to pm me?

himbo · 03-28-2010, 01:32 PM

Hey everyone! Here are some of my thoughts with regards to some of the things that were said. If the car really is under 2800-2900 lbs, you're not going to need balls of torque to move it. My '08 Impreza make 170 lb/tq, and weighs 3k+lbs and can still do the hustle. Lightweight and and a decent torque curve will make determine how well it moves around.

Secondly, I really hope they will keep the boxer layout. You really feel low center of gravity. Its tough to explain, but I know my Subie bros can vouch for me. Plus, even with equal length headers, there's still a distinct rumble and feel to that way the motor sounds and behaves. And my car is BONE stock! If this does become a high power motor, then a boxer motor would be nice because they are extremely smooth as they climb the rev range. This is just a natural property of the way they are balanced.

Finally, as much as I would love to see 100hp/lt (I love that magical figure!!!!

), I don't think it will happen if the car is set to cost under $24K. High hp NA motors that burn cleanly and get decent mileage are not going to be very cost efficient. If I am not mistaken, I believe that car companies have to reduce their average emission and consumption of their fleets, so I wonder if this is the logical way to go. This is why I believe that a 2L motor will not make 200hp. Who knows, they might go F/I

But hey, 170hp out of a 2L is still lots of fun on a car that weighs under 3k lbs!

I'm not saying that this is how things will be, just some things to be taken into consideration. Flame suit on and awaiting ass rapage

Midship Runabout · 03-28-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himbo

awaiting ass rapage

So is lex

Matador · 03-28-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

So is lex

Franisco · 03-28-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himbo

You really feel the low center of gravity.

himbo · 03-29-2010, 01:49 AM

^^^

Indeed LOL

NESW20 · 03-29-2010, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himbo

Finally, as much as I would love to see 100hp/lt (I love that magical figure!!!!

), I don't think it will happen if the car is set to cost under $24K.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-si-sedan/

-Mike

himbo · 03-29-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NESW20

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-si-sedan/

-Mike

I knew someone would get on it!

LOL I believe RWD tends to be a bit more expensive to produce- and the K20 is an older motor, so I don't think it complies with all the upcoming emissions and consumption standards. I believe new motors will have to comply with the new regs, which won't be cheap.

mrtodd · 03-31-2010, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himbo

I knew someone would get on it!

LOL I believe RWD tends to be a bit more expensive to produce- and the K20 is an older motor, so I don't think it complies with all the upcoming emissions and consumption standards. I believe new motors will have to comply with the new regs, which won't be cheap.

You don't think the K20Z3 would comply with upcoming 2012 Emissions? It's currently running at LEV-2 standards.. Not too bad IMHO. Pretty sure it wouldn't be difficult to bring it to PZEV levels with some Honda factory tinkering.

But the fact of the matter is that there ARE engine manufactures out there that still know how to make a damn good engine available for ~$24k, in terms of power.. Honda is one, and Toyota is another. Subaru, on the other hand, have never mass-produced an N/A engine (to the consumer market) that meets the 100hp/liter ratio. I personally think they rely too much on their turbos to get the numbers up...

I really hope that Toyota does some magic on the heads for this silly little boxer engine, because seriously, the N/A variant 2.0L boxer is pretty damn weak compared to other N/A 2.0's out there.

chulooz · 03-31-2010, 04:30 AM

I agree with you on their less than market topping hp/L numbers, but they do make nice amounts of TQ when it counts, something neither the toyota or honda engines are famous for. Truthfully I am hoping for a boosted variant to really wake this car up.

ichitaka05 · 03-31-2010, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtodd

You don't think the K20Z3 would comply with upcoming 2012 Emissions? It's currently running at LEV-2 standards.. Not too bad IMHO. Pretty sure it wouldn't be difficult to bring it to PZEV levels with some Honda factory tinkering.

But the fact of the matter is that there ARE engine manufactures out there that still know how to make a damn good engine available for ~$24k, in terms of power.. Honda is one, and Toyota is another. Subaru, on the other hand, have never mass-produced an N/A engine (to the consumer market) that meets the 100hp/liter ratio. I personally think they rely too much on their turbos to get the numbers up...

I really hope that Toyota does some magic on the heads for this silly little boxer engine, because seriously, the N/A variant 2.0L boxer is pretty damn weak compared to other N/A 2.0's out there.

Oh I do agree that hp/l for Subie sux... but don't forget, it's awd. I can't think of any Honda or Toyota engine that had i4, 2.5l or smaller, NA, AWD car that had better hp/l then Subie. I stand to be corrected.

I'm pretty sure if Subaru didn't have to worry bout AWD so much, they could of made good hp/l engine.

Decameron · 03-31-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Oh I do agree that hp/l for Subie sux... but don't forget, it's awd. I can't think of any Honda or Toyota engine that had i4, 2.5l or smaller, NA, AWD car that had better hp/l then Subie. I stand to be corrected.

I'm pretty sure if Subaru didn't have to worry bout AWD so much, they could of made good hp/l engine.

Is that because AWD generally requires more torque? Therefore forcing subie to tune their engines to give more torque while sacrificing HP?

ichitaka05 · 03-31-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decameron

Is that because AWD generally requires more torque? Therefore forcing subie to tune their engines to give more torque while sacrificing HP?

That's the general thoughts and from what I've seen on JDM awd cars... I have seen k-car 4wd, like Subaru Vivio with only max hp of 63, but of course it had 75tq.

but that's all my speculation.

03-18-2010, 12:41 AM	#169
NESW20 2.1L 3SGTE Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: MR2 Turbo & Tacoma Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,248 Thanks: 29 Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	near Valencia/Palmdale. great roads with little to no traffic! i won't name them publicly though... -Mike __________________ 1991 MR2 Turbo - 2.1L high compression stroker 3SGTE 2006 Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off Road - All-Pro front bumper, Old Man Emu shocks, Old Man Emu HD front coils, All-Pro leafs 1990 240SX Coupe - sold 2008 Civic Si Sedan

03-28-2010, 01:32 PM	#171
himbo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Drives: Lightening Red BRZ Ltd. Location: North Jersey Mutha Luva!!! Posts: 226 Thanks: 67 Thanked 95 Times in 44 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Hey everyone! Here are some of my thoughts with regards to some of the things that were said. If the car really is under 2800-2900 lbs, you're not going to need balls of torque to move it. My '08 Impreza make 170 lb/tq, and weighs 3k+lbs and can still do the hustle. Lightweight and and a decent torque curve will make determine how well it moves around. Secondly, I really hope they will keep the boxer layout. You really feel low center of gravity. Its tough to explain, but I know my Subie bros can vouch for me. Plus, even with equal length headers, there's still a distinct rumble and feel to that way the motor sounds and behaves. And my car is BONE stock! If this does become a high power motor, then a boxer motor would be nice because they are extremely smooth as they climb the rev range. This is just a natural property of the way they are balanced. Finally, as much as I would love to see 100hp/lt (I love that magical figure!!!!), I don't think it will happen if the car is set to cost under $24K. High hp NA motors that burn cleanly and get decent mileage are not going to be very cost efficient. If I am not mistaken, I believe that car companies have to reduce their average emission and consumption of their fleets, so I wonder if this is the logical way to go. This is why I believe that a 2L motor will not make 200hp. Who knows, they might go F/I But hey, 170hp out of a 2L is still lots of fun on a car that weighs under 3k lbs! I'm not saying that this is how things will be, just some things to be taken into consideration. Flame suit on and awaiting ass rapage

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03-25-2010, 07:38 PM	#170
ddoouugg Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Drives: RSX Location: L.A. Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	ooo. Care to pm me?

03-29-2010, 01:49 AM	#175
himbo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Drives: Lightening Red BRZ Ltd. Location: North Jersey Mutha Luva!!! Posts: 226 Thanks: 67 Thanked 95 Times in 44 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	^^^ Indeed LOL

03-31-2010, 04:30 AM	#179
chulooz Registered you sir Join Date: Feb 2010 Drives: 99 impreza coupe Location: DC / CT Posts: 1,666 Thanks: 259 Thanked 380 Times in 207 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I agree with you on their less than market topping hp/L numbers, but they do make nice amounts of TQ when it counts, something neither the toyota or honda engines are famous for. Truthfully I am hoping for a boosted variant to really wake this car up.

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