Alignment FAQ Thread

[skeeler]

Originally Posted by churchx

skeeler: one of most distinquishing/characterising features of this car - it's cheap. 9/10 of owners will never take it to the track, and are better off with stock understeer biased alignment and no adjustment means also less chance to get it wrong. I might be wrong, but isn't no camber adjustment common also to other cars for subaru like impreza/forester/wrx/etc?
It's 25-50$ cost to add camberbolts front, $230 for rear LCA like SPC. Imho not unreasonable cost for the hose 1/10 of owners, that may need it for something more then DD.

First: The Miata is equally cheap and has always had camber adjustment. Second: Having the correct alignment for the conditions is import for daily driving. It's quite reasonable to offer zero camber adjustment on an econobox, but the BRZ/86 is billed as a performance car. If there's no adjustment on the WRX, that's equally ridiculous. Having to spend over $250 dollars and a couple of hours of your time to have access to a basic alignment parameter is unreasonable.

Like I said, this issue won't stop me from buying one of the twins, but it doesn't fill me with respect for the design.

[churchx]

Miata is almost only new rwd coupe somewhat similarly priced & positioned. So it's reasonable to say that out of two half has camber adjustment, and half hasn't. So?

[skeeler]

Since a fully adjustable suspension has been available on RWD cars in this price range for 29 years, I'd say it's reasonable to expect it on any new car of that type.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by skeeler

Having to spend over $250 dollars and a couple of hours of your time to have access to a basic alignment parameter is unreasonable.

Camber adjustment bolts are $23 - $36, where are you getting $250?

Like I said, this issue won't stop me from buying one of the twins, but it doesn't fill me with respect for the design.

Every design is a compromise. I don't resent struts and lack of camber adjustability on this car any more than I did on my old 240Z. I have tons of respect for both designs. I do think that given lack of camber adjustment that they should have aimed for -0.5 to -1 from the factory instead of zero, but whatevs...

For the street I wouldn't worry about it at all. Since I'll be tracking the car, I'll be lowering it on stiffer springs and getting camber bolts for the front. That should give better than -2° up front. Far from ideal but a lot better than zero, and probably as much as you can get on a stock Miata.

[jamal]

The other Subarus, like the wrx etc, do have all have a front camber bolt from the factory.

Subarus have never had rear camber adjustment without extra parts, only toe.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by skeeler

Since a fully adjustable suspension has been available on RWD cars in this price range for 29 years, I'd say it's reasonable to expect it on any new car of that type.

Except you know, the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, 370Z, Genesis, and probably a few more also have no front camber adjustment off the showroom floor.

You've been spoiled by Mazda, they've been making some of the best sports cars in the market for any price for 50 years now all the way back to the Cosmo and RX-2 through all of the RX-7's and the Miata. If you want a similar quality sporting product of a different badge you have to double the budget and start looking at Porsche's and Corvette's.

[skeeler]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a troll here. I'm legitimately interested in an 86 or, more likely, BRZ. I'm just frustrated to learn this new-to-me information.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by skeeler

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a troll here. I'm legitimately interested in an 86 or, more likely, BRZ. I'm just frustrated to learn this new-to-me information.

Yeah I agree, I love the car, once I started modifying and understanding how gimped the car is with the factory camber I was disillusioned for a year or two. I'm over it now, the 86 does too many things right for me to hate the few things I'm disappointed by.

The reality is that the Miata is the exception, not the rule.

Nobody is fighting you, we're all just talking.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by skeeler

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a troll here. I'm legitimately interested in an 86 or, more likely, BRZ. I'm just frustrated to learn this new-to-me information.

Camber bolt mod is about as cheap and easy as they come and addresses your gripe for the most part at the front of the car anyway. There are options for the rear of the car, but there you're at least starting with -1° instead of zero. Anyone serious about performance and track work the car will be coming down some, lowered 1" the rears should be around -2° or better without any mods required.

[Twinz]

You can add the 350Z to that list too. I wish I could have got 3 degrees of negative camber with some camber bolts on that thing.....had to by complete adjustable A-arms for that thing.

-And the Z came with some serious lawyer-induced understeer from the factory.

[skeeler]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Camber adjustment bolts are $23 - $36, where are you getting $250?

Front and rear.

[skeeler]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Anyone serious about performance and track work the car will be coming down some, lowered 1" the rears should be around -2° or better without any mods required.

But with no adjustment.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by skeeler

But with no adjustment.

So what? It's effectively not adjustable on cars *with* adjustability built in anyway, as for max handling performance you're pretty much going to be at the maximum adjustable limit. IMO adjustability for the sake of adjustability is overrated. On my "adjustable" S2000 I'm stuck at -1.3° front and -2.2° rear, it's been effectively fixed from the time I got the car and had it adjusted to max camber at both ends. If I can get -2° front and rear on my BRZ with only camber bolts and lowering the car 1" I'll be pretty OK with that.

[skeeler]

Originally Posted by ZDan

So what? It's effectively not adjustable on cars *with* adjustability built in anyway, as for max handling performance you're pretty much going to be at the maximum adjustable limit. IMO adjustability for the sake of adjustability is overrated. On my "adjustable" S2000 I'm stuck at -1.3° front and -2.2° rear, it's been effectively fixed from the time I got the car and had it adjusted to max camber at both ends. If I can get -2° front and rear on my BRZ with only camber bolts and lowering the car 1" I'll be pretty OK with that.

If your car offers enough range of adjustment, then you don't have to max it out. My NC is at -2.4° front and -2.1° rear, and I've been at least 0.2° more than that. On that car, you want to run less static camber in the rear, due to the steeper camber curve of the 5-link setup, so if I were stuck at the max camber in the rear--I don't even know what that is, because I've never needed it--I'd have less drive on the straights. Adjustability is imperative.