Winter

[FRiSson]

Okay, I am going way out on the ignorance limb here, but I think it might apply. There is more than one "correct" way to approach the snow and ice issue.

If you run thick tires and a lot of weight then you might want tires with very aggressive tread that break up the snow/ice material and kind of grind away. On the other hand, the idea with skinny tires and light weight is to slice through the muck and grip whatever pavement is available.

So, maybe both systems work, but using a different approach. In the Nordic countries I have observed people driving on roads that are never cleared down to the pavement, merely flattened. People drive all day on them using skinny studded tires. They simply drive in a slow and steady manner - unlike your typical American idiot who feels entitled to drive as normal because they bought a Land Rover or Yukon.

Here in greater Boston, snow clearing approaches an art. So they almost always get you down to a mix of thin mush and pavement within a few hours of the end of a snowfall. In those conditions, the skinny tire system will work best, but in a poorly plowed area, a heavy, bulldozer tire system might work better under a wider variety of conditions, including traversing unplowed stretches.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

well i'm not curious about you! why should i be?
how old are you sherlock? if i was a betting man,i would have to say
18?

Just wondering, your name has "mary" in the middle of it. No need to get all weird about it.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

Okay, I am going way out on the ignorance limb here, but I think it might apply. There is more than one "correct" way to approach the snow and ice issue.

If you run thick tires and a lot of weight then you might want tires with very aggressive tread that break up the snow/ice material and kind of grind away. On the other hand, the idea with skinny tires and light weight is to slice through the muck and grip whatever pavement is available.

So, maybe both systems work, but using a different approach. In the Nordic countries I have observed people driving on roads that are never cleared down to the pavement, merely flattened. People drive all day on them using skinny studded tires. They simply drive in a slow and steady manner - unlike you're typical idiot who feels entitled to drive as normal because they bought a Land Rover or Yukon.

Here in greater Boston, snow clearing approaches an art. So they almost always get you down to a mix of thin mush and pavement within a few hours of the end of a snowfall. In those conditions, the skinny tire system will work best, but in a poorly plowed area, a heavy, bulldozer tire system might work better under a wider variety of conditions, including traversing unplowed stretches.

Kinda sorta.

You never want to run heavy with thick. What you want to avoid is snow remaining under the tire. Ever slip on compacted snow? Same idea.

When you run a thinner tire, the snow is more apt to push out, rather than down. The opposite holds true for thicker tires. Having a heavier vehicle only adds to that down effect. Once snow is compacted, it's very difficult to get good traction.

You'll notice a lot of snow tires have a more "pixelated" (for lack of a better term) design on the tread pattern with lots of sipens (sp?). The sipens are great for moving water and providing flex in the tread. The block design on the tread adds more grip as snow is compressed, rather than using a smooth channel design like on summer tires, which just glides past snow.

Make sense?

[FRiSson]

Well, here's another twist on this. I read an interview with a tire engineer a while back. They had done a lot of research and found some strange things that seem to go against the expected. But when you are dealing with water slipping in and out of solid and liquid form I guess that is to be expected. One of the things they found was that a certain amount of snow-to-snow contact rather than compound-to-snow contact could be helpful. Therefore under some circumstances it could be useful for tire voids to retain packed snow in order to facilitate traction.

By the way, Blizzak's breakthrough was in developing air spaces in the compound that could facilitate suction between tire and ice on a micro scale.

Originally Posted by 2forme

Kinda sorta.

You never want to run heavy with thick. What you want to avoid is snow remaining under the tire. Ever slip on compacted snow? Same idea.

When you run a thinner tire, the snow is more apt to push out, rather than down. The opposite holds true for thicker tires. Having a heavier vehicle only adds to that down effect. Once snow is compacted, it's very difficult to get good traction.

You'll notice a lot of snow tires have a more "pixelated" (for lack of a better term) design on the tread pattern with lots of sipens (sp?). The sipens are great for moving water and providing flex in the tread. The block design on the tread adds more grip as snow is compressed, rather than using a smooth channel design like on summer tires, which just glides past snow.

Make sense?

[neutron256]

It's pretty simple. On ice or compacted snow a wider tire will provide more contact and better grip. On slush, wet snow, or fresh powdery snow narrow tires will both cut through and concentrate the force to compact the area under the tire better to provide a surface it can grip on.

I went with stock width because I live in a city where they are very quick to get roads plowed so I'm almost always driving on compacted snow. If its not plowed I work from home and don't go out.

There are many different types of snow and no single tire is going to be best for all of them.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Normally, I wouldn't care, but when it comes to the safety of people on the road and others around them... Sorry but I had to say something.

yeah! and you are entitled to your opinion,same as me hotshot!
i just happen to think you are wrong,so we can agree to disagree!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Normally, I wouldn't care, but when it comes to the safety of people on the road and others around them... Sorry but I had to say something.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Just wondering, your name has "mary" in the middle of it. No need to get all weird about it.

mary is my daughter's name! no harm intended!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by neutron256

It's pretty simple. On ice or compacted snow a wider tire will provide more contact and better grip. On slush, wet snow, or fresh powdery snow narrow tires will both cut through and concentrate the force to compact the area under the tire better to provide a surface it can grip on.

I went with stock width because I live in a city where they are very quick to get roads plowed so I'm almost always driving on compacted snow. If its not plowed I work from home and don't go out.

There are many different types of snow and no single tire is going to be best for all of them.

this is correct,and having "sufficient "weight" (ballast) "increases" grip under those conditions,either by driving a heavier vehicle,OR adding weight to a lighter vehicle!

[FRiSson]

It will be interesting to see whether it is better, under slushy road conditions, to start with the LSD on or off.

[WRXGuy1]

Just got my winter tires put on, man does this change the handling though..

[korinfox]

You can't turn the LSD off. I hope you mean one of the other electronic nannies? Generally it's best to leave anything on, unless you get stuck and then turn traction control off so that you can get going again, and turn it back on.

Originally Posted by FRiSson

It will be interesting to see whether it is better, under slushy road conditions, to start with the LSD on or off.

[jmaryt]

this is correct! (l.s.d.) IS useful in limited traction conditions,
the differential is designed to "limit slip",hence the name!

[FRiSson]

Yes, I meant disable "Trac", traction control, not the limited slip differential.

[RazBRZ]

My winter schedule
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...A#.UNKJh280WSo
http://www.icerace.com/schedule.htm