SCCA Solo D Street discussion

[GoJoshGo]

Here's a link to the Camaro Forums D-Street thread. Sounds like they have a very competitive car this year.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477232

600lb heavier than a twin!

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by GoJoshGo

Here's a link to the Camaro Forums D-Street thread. Sounds like they have a very competitive car this year.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477232

600lb heavier than a twin!

That's Mark Scroggs. He would be competitive on a riding lawnmower.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Locust

So Mark Scroggs in his Camaro is killing DS right now. Not looking like a good year for the twins again.

Mark decimates us at every event. I knew it was over once he stopped red lighting.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by G_Ride

Mark decimates us at every event. I knew it was over once he stopped red lighting.

I'm coming down next weekend but not hopeful for this one. Missing a ton of parts still and Crow's is always very fast which tends to favor the higher HP cars. The Camaro looks, to me, like a clear overdog. Will be interesting to see how Spring Nats and Nats shape up this year.

I think the ND Miata is that catalyst for a disaster of unfavorable street classing. Putting it into CS killed that class for everything else and then created this big shift to DS that is more like a high school science experiment gone wrong.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Locust

I'm coming down next weekend but not hopeful for this one. Missing a ton of parts still and Crow's is always very fast which tends to favor the higher HP cars. The Camaro looks, to me, like a clear overdog. Will be interesting to see how Spring Nats and Nats shape up this year.

I think the ND Miata is that catalyst for a disaster of unfavorable street classing. Putting it into CS killed that class for everything else and then created this big shift to DS that is more like a high school science experiment gone wrong.

Courses at Crows do tend to be fast, but we'll see how the courses Ben Martinez is making for the Tour.

Off topic, Chris Cox designed a really fun and challenging course for the Pro.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Locust

I'm coming down next weekend but not hopeful for this one. Missing a ton of parts still and Crow's is always very fast which tends to favor the higher HP cars. The Camaro looks, to me, like a clear overdog. Will be interesting to see how Spring Nats and Nats shape up this year.

I think the ND Miata is that catalyst for a disaster of unfavorable street classing. Putting it into CS killed that class for everything else and then created this big shift to DS that is more like a high school science experiment gone wrong.

I think overdog is a strong word to use.

Lets not forget. Scroggs drove a '15 Mustang to within 5 tenths of Cormier and 6 tenths within Otis.

The next EB Mustang was only you know 2-3 seconds back.

With a move especially like the DS shift, I find it hard to believe SEB will put a car that would eliminate the twins. Scroggs is just that good.

Also, if you haven't watched video, might want to spend some time. STX Twins were sitting on rev limiters in multiple spots both sides of the course. DS Twin is simply out of gear at that point.

[solort]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I think overdog is a strong word to use.

Lets not forget. Scroggs drove a '15 Mustang to within 5 tenths of Cormier and 6 tenths within Otis.

The next EB Mustang was only you know 2-3 seconds back.

With a move especially like the DS shift, I find it hard to believe SEB will put a car that would eliminate the twins. Scroggs is just that good.

Also, if you haven't watched video, might want to spend some time. STX Twins were sitting on rev limiters in multiple spots both sides of the course. DS Twin is simply out of gear at that point.

Don't forget that the Camaro turbo literally has twice the torque at half the RPMs of the Twins (295 ftlbs @ 3000RPM vs 151 ftlbs@6400RPM). That is a HUGE difference and keeps the Camaro in the optimal torque range almost the entire course.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by solort

Don't forget that the Camaro turbo literally has twice the torque at half the RPMs of the Twins (295 ftlbs @ 3000RPM vs 151 ftlbs@6400RPM). That is a HUGE difference and keeps the Camaro in the optimal torque range almost the entire course.

Okay? So that is a good Pro car then.

My 128 made 241 whp @ 217 ft-lbs of torque (200 ft-lbs+ from 2000 RPM to 6000 RPM) in STX trim.

Look at the numbers and people screamed bloody murder. It was a good Pro car, it won enough times.

However, it was an uphill battle at Tours. Too many disadvantages (imo) against the Twins.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Locust

The Camaro looks, to me, like a clear overdog. Will be interesting to see how Spring Nats and Nats shape up this year.

I think the ND Miata is that catalyst for a disaster of unfavorable street classing. Putting it into CS killed that class for everything else and then created this big shift to DS that is more like a high school science experiment gone wrong.

I'll second that Scroggs could convince us that most any car is an overdog. He's devastating in everything he drives. I think it's classed correctly. Then again, I think the gen6 V6 Camaro belongs in DS, too. If there was an overdog, I would have said it was the EB Mustang.

As for the ND. It's strong for CS, and almost certainly the car, but I can't fathom a 155hp anything trying to hang with a C5 in BS on anything bigger than a postage stamp that will never draw a national event. So...CS it is. The flavor-of-the-month nature throughout the majority of Street category is that catalyst for figuratively getting the rug pulled out from under you, if we're looking to assign blame.

The release of the ND miata is not much of an explanation for why a national championship driver in a Camaro laid a beat down on a miata-free class. The ND is also not the reason for the sweeping re-population of DS. Those are separate things, only linked by a competitor's tunnel vision interest causing them to do the out-of-the-frying-pan-and-into-the-fire dance.

DS re-pop was done because a)DS was an absolute ghost town. If we still had the minimum participation rule, DS would have been axed as a class; b)lots of uncompetitive cars buried in FS. For the older cars in the class, this was moving them back to where they were. It's the initial street category rollout classing that was the science experiment. This year's moves are the SAC/SEB correcting their mistakes. That's a good thing.

Remember, the BRZ/non-trd crowd had been feverishly clamoring for the DS move just as soon as the TRD tech bulletin came out (not the ND classing), and the DS re-pop proposal was signaled relatively well in advance. It's committee decision-making, so, very few actions have the effect of being done in a vacuum even if they try to, and the SAC/SEB gave us plenty of heads-up on that they weren't trying to make this move in isolation. Twins in DS is what was asked for, and Twins in DS is what happened. It was simply more involved than just the disenfranchised twins, so it wasn't the silver bullet some were hoping for.

[Biggins]

These arguments can be made across every class. I think DS is a total crap shoot this year. Our cars suck at ProSolos and lose 0.3-1.0 seconds to the "top" cars in each street class before the course even "begins." I think a well-driven WRX should walk all other cars in DS for ProSolos.

On a regular autocross, a BRZ/FR-S should be at/near the top in DS. It is always course dependent in other classes too, but I wouldn't rule out any well-driven BRZ/FR-S, Camaro, Mustang, WRX, Mini, Genesis, or a certain trim of 228i. I'm sure there are other less popular oddballs that could work too, but many of these cars have limitations which seems to have thrown them into DS.

I'll keep playing in CS as an observer and decide later on if I want to put the lift kit back on the car by Labor Day.

[jmark]

Has a well prepped and driven 2017 BRZ PP run in CS yet? I recall a member here in a FRS won some earlier CS events.

[DaWorstPlaya]

If a course has a lot of sweepers and slaloms the twins have a shot. My co-driver and I have signed up for Spring Nats but we have low expectations for the Pro part of it.

[Shark_Bait88]

Would upgraded axles, like DSS Level 2 Axles, be street class legal?

I've started to get a clicking coming from my rear axle. I'm going to try re-torquing, and possibly replacing, my axle nuts first. Some people have mentioned that this can solve the issue, but if that fails I'll be looking at replacing the axles. I'd prefer to put in something stronger rather than the somewhat week OEM components, if possible.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Would upgraded axles, like DSS Level 2 Axles, be street class legal?

I've started to get a clicking coming from my rear axle. I'm going to try re-torquing, and possibly replacing, my axle nuts first. Some people have mentioned that this can solve the issue, but if that fails I'll be looking at replacing the axles. I'd prefer to put in something stronger rather than the somewhat week OEM components, if possible.

Nope, 100% illegal.

Recent proposal in SP allows for part replacements that improve reliability without improving performance.

Street and ST must run on OE axles.

Pickup spares and learn to do the swap while in paddock