Production version ready next April

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by DantKR

They also are only seem to be shooting for about 125,000 - 150,000 unit sales per year, which they achieved earlier on, but obviously since everything crashed they're not getting to those numbers.


I'm talking about 95% of the market. 95% of the market doesn't give a shit about performance. This should be obvious with how well the Prias is doing. They care about 3 things:

1) Cost
2) Looks
3) Mileage

That all the average buyer cars about. They don't care if it's FWD or RWD or AWD, they don't care if it's a I4 H4 I6 V6 V12. All cars are potential ricers. That shouldn't be a shock to anyone here. Scion isn't marketed towards people on this forum, it's marketed to people who just want a car, but don't want a fucking Corolla or a damn Sentra.

Are you talking about 95% of Scion's market? Or the whole market? Because, I will again bring your attention to http://www.scion.com/scionracing/ and how its existence seems to contradict you.

Discuss...

[DanZilla]

Lets go Scion

[Dark]

Originally Posted by DanZilla

Lets go Scion

Somebody is going to get hurt really bad.


















I kid, I kid.
but no Scion either.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Are you talking about 95% of Scion's market? Or the whole market? Because, I will again bring your attention to http://www.scion.com/scionracing/ and how its existence seems to contradict you.

Discuss...

I'm talking about 95% of the entire market.

[70NYD]

i would say 50% of the market doesnt give a shit about the performance.. 95 is a little way to steep

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I will again bring your attention to http://www.scion.com/scionracing/ and how its existence seems to contradict you.

Discuss...

I am beginning to think someone at Scion Racing personally offended you at some point. I mean seriously, did they string you along telling you you had a seat waiting for you and then: Yoink! You didn't make the team?

Or, are you just angry that it took five years for Scion to come to the great white north? It's a brand that until this year was not even something that needed to be on your radar (it'd be like an American hating Holden or SEAT), yet you have a terrible hatred for the brand--the kind of animosity you have doesn't just form overnight. Like I suggested elsewhere, have a cup of chamomile tea, do your woosahs and relax.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

i would say 50% of the market doesnt give a shit about the performance.. 95 is a little way to steep

50% of people care about performance? Hell no, nooooo way. Most people want what's efficient to them, what's comfortable, and what works. Also, I'm thinking in more of a street sense. Now if you want to bring trucks(people that actually use trucks for what they're made for) and work vans and such then you're defiantly going to be changing the percentages. People care more about getting from point A to point B than how fast they CAN get there.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by DantKR

50% of people care about performance? Hell no, nooooo way. Most people want what's efficient to them, what's comfortable, and what works. Also, I'm thinking in more of a street sense. Now if you want to bring trucks(people that actually use trucks for what they're made for) and work vans and such then you're defiantly going to be changing the percentages. People care more about getting from point A to point B than how fast they CAN get there.

I think that you got him wrong. You said 95%, didn't you? He wanted to say 95% is possibly impossible, 50% is more likely.
You just replied that no way 50% would think about performance and s*it. Are you defending your argument or just going to argue against people?
What is you 90% of entire market?

[Siriusly.Andrew]

if 95% of the ENTIRE global market didn't give two shits about performance, we wouldn't have car companies like Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, *lists a bunch of exotic car manufacturers I don't know how to say / spell*.

50% makes more sense. I can believe that 50% of people purchasing a vehicle care about the performance of their vehicle. That could mean economical performance, or towing performance, 0-60 performance, ability to get out of a mud hole performance, ***** magnet performance, etc etc.

Maybe 95% of the market doesn't care about their vehicles 0-60 performance, but they care about some form of their vehicles performance. Your statement is bullocks. (DantKR)

And if we're talking performance like 0-60, I still think 95% of that is bullshit. How many people drag race? I'm sure more than 5% of all vehicle owners raced at some point and said "Fuck, I wish I had a faster car". That is caring about vehicle performance.

[DantKR]

Sorry, let me clarify. People are taking the way I use performance to the extreme. If you want to use it in the sense that people care about mileage as a factor in my statement then yes, 50% of people care about performance. I mean in the sense of people that want to drive in a "spirited" fashion, or go to race days etc. When I said performance, I meant, 0-60, handling, braking or whatever form of racing you want to bring up. I honestly don't think that most people care about that kind of performance.

if 95% of the ENTIRE global market didn't give two shits about performance, we wouldn't have car companies like Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, *lists a bunch of exotic car manufacturers I don't know how to say / spell*.

We actually would. In the united states(not exact stats) I believe it's between 1 - 2% of American's make more than 100k a year. Those "exotics" are made for the wealthy. Not for the average driver(talking about the 80k+ cars). It's the same reason companies like Leer Jet are still in business. Marketing to Bill Gates can get you more than enough profit.

Stats:

190,625,023 licensed drivers in the US in the year 2000. 5% of that is 9,531,251.

I think 9,531,000 people is a fair estimate of people who care about performance, in the respect to how I brought up.

I just think that if 95 million people cared about performance the way people on the this forum do, it would be a completely different world.

[oneday]

I don't think 95% is accurate, but would be surprised if 50% of the car buying public thought about performance the way an enthusiast does. KBB Survey of car Shoppers

Originally Posted by MediaPost

Eighty-two percent of used-car shoppers and 51% of new-car shoppers said incentives won't affect when they buy. And around the same proportions of shoppers said that incentives also are not affecting which vehicle makes and models they are looking at.



Survey respondents put just three vehicles in their consideration set, with 83% of them undecided on the make and model. The firm says most shoppers 34 years old and younger have no bias about import or domestic brands, but among all buyers, the keys are price and the triumvirate of durability, quality and reliability, with only 12% of buyers saying past experience with a brand was a top deciding factor.


As for money, most used-car shoppers said they will spend less than $15,000 on their next vehicle, while half of new-car shoppers said they plan to spend $25,000 or less.

I really wish the author had posted the figures for their "most" comments...regardless, according to this survey performance is clearly not considered by most shoppers...especially if 50% of new-car buyers plan to spend less than $25k on a car.

My impression of car buyers (from dealing with them at events and through my business) is that 60-70% are concerned with practical performance information (MPG, towing capacity, durability, reliability & safety) and would have actual performance (the way we think about it) as the last concern when shopping for a car.

15-20% will be concerned with superficial (magazine) performance (HP, 0-60, 1320)--also know as "bench racers"-- but will never actually test or need it and will never get within 7/10 of the car's capabilities themselves. Bench racers will claim that performance is top priority but looks and price are probably higher on the list actually.

The remaining 15-20% are enthusiasts, those of us that are aware of or will try to use the actual performance and who put performance at the top of the priority list (followed by price and/or looks) when car shopping. I'd be surprised if half of this 15-20% actually tried to improve the cars performance using aftermarket parts.

While many of your friends are possibly enthusiasts and the people you associate with on-line are too, we really do make up a very small percentage of new-car buyers. Numbers for a used-car buyer will likely be skewed a little more towards performance numbers, but not by much.

[70NYD]

Look I clearly didnt mean that 50% of the GLOBAL market (stop thinking just USA ffs, your so narrow minded..) are enthusiasts, what I meant is that there is deffinately more than 5% of ppl that actually care about the way their car performs, way it takes of, way it takes corners, and don't give a fuck about mpg (eg everyone who bought a rx7, supra, vspec|| from factory even stock they are great cars)
MOST people actually care about 0-60 or it wouldn't be marketed under that or how much power a car has.. But the thing is there are at least 2-3 out of 10 ppl out there that don't actually care about the cars as long as they look 'cute'..
But there is also that 5% that care about sports performance cars, that love them and would always modify a car to obtain the best out of it, but can only afford a Hyundai Getz..

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by oneday

I am beginning to think someone at Scion Racing personally offended you at some point. I mean seriously, did they string you along telling you you had a seat waiting for you and then: Yoink! You didn't make the team?

Or, are you just angry that it took five years for Scion to come to the great white north? It's a brand that until this year was not even something that needed to be on your radar (it'd be like an American hating Holden or SEAT), yet you have a terrible hatred for the brand--the kind of animosity you have doesn't just form overnight. Like I suggested elsewhere, have a cup of chamomile tea, do your woosahs and relax.

Damn, how'd you know??? It's Tanner Foust! I was in contention for the host spot on Supercars Exposed, then lost to Tanner, then Toyota picked him (from a Nissan!) to drive the Scion drift car over me by a narrow margin, then a second time I lost a TV job to Tanner, now trading pleasantries with Paul Tracy in Battle of the Supercars. Damn you Tanner Foust!!! Or not...

As for my interest in Scion, well, being from the powerful, independent, influential, nation of Canada, for some strange reason we seem to get a wee bit of American media.

And given Canada's mighty independence, I knew it was only a matter of time...

[fernan2]

[QUOTE=70NYD;21582]there are at least 2-3 out of 10 ppl out there QUOTE]

WTF??? wierd statistic.