OpenFlash Tuning Tech: Tales from the Dyno (Stock, Ecutek and OpenFlash tunes)

[s2d4]

Pretty sure it is this:
Maps -> open
Device -> non-open

You flash the open maps with the non open device.

The better analogy may be:
Open source software on non-open computer hardware.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Not sure what you are referring to as software source code?? If your talking about the map definitions... it's the same basic maps that ecutek and brzedit have. There are many, many more tables in the rom that still need to be defined but nothing is missing that is currently available in other packages.

I'm not posting what i have because i am using a beta version.

We've had a couple of chats, so I think you realise I know the difference between software and def files.

I also don't care much about the open source software debate. I'd just like to see the source code OpenFlash put on their tablets, so that it could be modified for use on a laptop and made freely available to everyone. That would benefit everyone because it would speed up R&D.

[FRSTEVE]

Originally Posted by coyote

We've had a couple of chats, so I think you realise I know the difference between software and def files.

I also don't care much about the open source software debate. I'd just like to see the source code OpenFlash put on their tablets, so that it could be modified for use on a laptop and made freely available to everyone. That would benefit everyone because it would speed up R&D.

I'm sure you would like that, but can't you see that they should be entitled to recoup some of their investment? They aren't doing it for free, but they are doing a lot of work for a reasonable price.

Giving us a little more on control than what we had before.

They are entitled to that, just as you are entitled to NOT have to buy their product.

(this is not an attack on you specifically, but simply a reply to many people saying everything should be free)

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by coyote

We've had a couple of chats, so I think you realise I know the difference between software and def files.

I also don't care much about the open source software debate. I'd just like to see the source code OpenFlash put on their tablets, so that it could be modified for use on a laptop and made freely available to everyone. That would benefit everyone because it would speed up R&D.

Read one post above yours.

Openflash != open source firmware code on flashing device.
Openflash == open maps flashing on flashing device.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by FRSTEVE

I'm sure you would like that, but can't you see that they should be entitled to recoup some of their investment? They aren't doing it for free, but they are doing a lot of work for a reasonable price.

Giving us a little more on control than what we had before.

They are entitled to that, just as you are entitled to NOT have to buy their product.

(this is not an attack on you specifically, but simply a reply to many people saying everything should be free)

So what you're saying is that they've invested time and money into R&D and even though someone pays them a one off fee to be able to utilise the knowledge gained through that R&D, that person shouldn't then be able to go and make it available to another company to benefit from their R&D?

That's an interesting idea.

[cuddefred]

Read the thread title and you may notice the word Ecutek in it! Amazing that some people then discuss it here - wow

Originally Posted by hmong337

Can you guys fuck off with the EcuTek for a bit. I would like to know more about OFT

[FRSTEVE]

Originally Posted by coyote

So what you're saying is that they've invested time and money into R&D and even though someone pays them a one off fee to be able to utilise the knowledge gained through that R&D, that person shouldn't then be able to go and make it available to another company to benefit from their R&D?

That's an interesting idea.

Sure, if that's how you're interpreting it. If I was to buy OFT, it would be to flash maps (not to be able to create another product to flash maps).

(i don't want to make this about me) But i've been in hardware, software and services companies at various stages. I do not know how I really feel about software, but those in the hardware space cannot operate like those in software. For example, Intel needs to get a bunch of engineers, PMs, PMMs, finance and operations people to work at a chip design anywhere from 18 months to 2.5 years before they really have something. Then they build up wafer fabs, distribution channels, sales teams ... the things go on and on. They can't do any sort of forward investment if they don't know they are going to be some sort of reward at the end and for their investors, it needs to be some soft of multiplier of the investment.

I don't know how the OFT team is doing things, but doing hardware is ... hard. I do not think they are have the unit volume to justify any sort of significant discount. I'm sure they built a prototype, went to China/Taiwan/Thailand/Vietname to find some ODM to build at some quantity level, but for such a small product they will have to put some some sort of Non-recoverable engineering fund (NRE) to get them to build it and commit to some quantity. Unless they are funded, they are going to bankroll all of this themselves. Its a risk and if they do to break even ... they are stupid or have more money than common sense.

So yes, I think they should make some money. If anyone thinks otherwise, then DO NOT BUY THEIR STUFF. Simple relationship, no need to get personal or make it more complicated than it needs to be.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Read one post above yours.

Openflash != open source firmware code on flashing device.
Openflash == open maps flashing on flashing device.

I'm the first person to bag the EcuWreck guys, but can see they are on a hiding to nothing if they try to come in here and try to defend themselves.

It's quite obvious that someone has had the benefit of their (the EcuWreck tuners) R&D, but isn't giving them due credit for how much time it has saved him.

I've done my R&D from scratch (using brzEdit on an R&D car I bought) and as cumbersome as flash tuning is, can't imagine how painful that would have been if my flashing and logging software was locked to a device that I couldn't edit my maps on.

I don't sell canned tunes, nor do I commit the DBW fraud that we all know many tuners do ... so I don't care that much about this thread. It's the obvious hypocracy on display here that raises my eyebrows.

I do think people need to stop adopting an almost religious attitude to these things. I tried to warn you guys when you all thought Visconti was the Messiah. I'm just suggesting you have a more open mind about what's going on with this OpenFlash gadget.

Until RomRaider is up and running for this platform, you are all just targets for someone to make a quick buck.

[FRSTEVE]

i also missed the point that even if it didn't flash, but you could use it like a $400 P3 guage and it can datalog and has a touchscreen (so I don't need to keep a laptop around as much).

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Speaking of cam timing, here is the testing data post i made on the subject almost 7 months ago....

And to my point, this is the type of thing that I would expect someone to post in support of a statement like was made in the first post. A few of us saw that thread back when it was posted, but tying it to a statement like was made here is important to those who may not have.

I'm the first person to bag the EcuWreck guys, but can see they are on a hiding to nothing if they try to come in here and try to defend themselves.

It's quite obvious that someone has had the benefit of their (the EcuWreck tuners) R&D, but isn't giving them due credit for how much time it has saved him.

I've done my R&D from scratch (using brzEdit on an R&D car I bought) and as cumbersome as flash tuning is, can't imagine how painful that would have been if my flashing and logging software was locked to a device that I couldn't edit my maps on.

I don't sell canned tunes, nor do I commit the DBW fraud that we all know many tuners do ... so I don't care that much about this thread. It's the obvious hypocracy on display here that raises my eyebrows.

I do think people need to stop adopting an almost religious attitude to these things. I tried to warn you guys when you all thought Visconti was the Messiah. I'm just suggesting you have a more open mind about what's going on with this OpenFlash gadget.

Until RomRaider is up and running for this platform, you are all just targets for someone to make a quick buck.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by coyote

I tried to warn you guys when you all thought Visconti was the Messiah. I'm just suggesting you have a more open mind about what's going on with this OpenFlash gadget.

I never bought into that fraud, it was disappointing as there were even a forum mod steering people to that sham. He spends his days now fanboying someone else.
Anyways, point taken with regards to the open mind about this device.

However, I was merely stating and letting people know that openflash is not open source. It was demonstrated by quite a lot of people that they do not know the difference between this device and open source software.
Going after source code for non-open source firmware code makes no sense.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Going after source code for non-open source firmware code makes no sense.

Although it would be of massive benefit to the community to have this kind of software not locked onto a gadget, my question may have been a bit tongue in cheek.

I'm actually looking at buying a Hydra to speed up my R&D, but getting an OpenFlash and copying someone else's is definitely easier and cheaper.

[Kodename47]

Just like to point out for those who want to talk tech for this product, there is the OpenFlash Tech thread.

I agree that this could benefit from some form of direct connection to a laptop for use when "live tuning" and also we need to see what Tuner Pro is like for viewing logs and if there's any decent 3rd party software that can view the log files if it's not up to a good standard.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Just like to point out for those who want to talk tech for this product, there is the OpenFlash Tech thread.

I agree that this could benefit from some form of direct connection to a laptop for use when "live tuning" and also we need to see what Tuner Pro is like for viewing logs and if there's any decent 3rd party software that can view the log files if it's not up to a good standard.

Here are some useful video tutorials that we put together for the BMW Openflash application:

http://www.procedetuning.com/BMW/n54...als/index.html

They show basic map editing, file uploading/downloading, datalogging, data viewing, etc,. The BRZ/FRS application is virtually identical with the exception that a) datalogging/viewing won't be enabled for another 2-3 weeks and b) you don't even need to use the patch function to create your tuned ROM based on your original ROM. Instead, you can simple download complete tuned ROM files, upload them to your tablet and then flash it into your ECU. So it's considerably simpler than what is described in the videos.

The BRZ/FRS section of our website will go live tomorrow by the end of the day and will have a video tutorial and baseline maps (with XDF file) for download.

Cheers,
Shiv